[quote]OK, the rich pay very little in taxes, mainly because the rich have numerous tax writeoffs, depreciate land/assets, etc. They pay fewer taxes then anyone else! (Which is good, because they also give back to scociety alot!)[/quote]
Actually the rich pay a signifigant majority of the taxes in the United States. The top 1% of income earners pay 30% of the nations tax burden. The top 10% pay 50% of all taxes and the bottom 40% are only asked to shoulder only about 1% of the tax burden. Source: [url]http://www.allegromedia.com/sugi/taxes/[/url]
[quote]In recent years it has been trend for big companies to kick out people so that they would make more profit and and to get stocks rising.
And rich owners are those who collect fruits of this.[/quote]
I would disagree that the rich are those that collect the fruits of rising stock prices. Some of the most powerful stock holders are not the rich investors, but large funds. Interests in many of these funds are usually held by "common" people. Almost every retierment fund invests in the stock market, whether its a teachers retirement or a state employee fund. Many "common" people have IRAs and 401ks These are some of the largest and most powerful stockholders on wall street and the people who benefit are the common person.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Biggles [/i]
[B]I have no idea how that is supposed to work...[/b]
[/quote]
Neither have I actually, but I see it happen allll the time. Sad really.
[quote]
So you're saying we shouldn't help the less fortunate members of society? Why should they not get decent health treatment just because they don't have lots of money?
[/quote]
No, I'm stateing a fact. I agree that they should be helped, but the bare bones of it is, they cost money.
[quote]
The government provides such things using taxes from the general public. The rich can do it themselves in their own little way, but the government is the one with the capability to ensure even distribution.
This bit also makes me wonder if you've seen your parents have to deal with bad tenants. I know I have, and bad tenants are always annoying, whether they can afford to pay the rent easily or not. In fact, in my experience the ones who seem to be living closer to the edge tend to look after things better because they really need their deposit back if/when they move out.
[/quote]
"The rich can do it themselves in their own little way" ... how? By providing free housing, food, medicle, etc? They would go broke in a matter of weeks, sounds a *little* like a communistic society to me, share the welth equally etc. (Amazes me how many people feel that way too).
Different countries, different outlook I guess....here it entirely depends on the person, but from what I've seen (ANd had to clean up) Once it becomes apparent that they can not continue paying rent, they totally stop paying, trash the place, and force an eviction. Since the full legal proceedings of an eviction last 3 months....they live for free for three months, and cost my dad hundereds to thousands of dollers in repairs. The ones that actually keep the place clean are the ones that are only here while they look for a new place to live, or plan on living here for hte next 20 years.
[quote]
Well if you're expecting people to pay for health care then I guess you should expect to be charged a lot for something so valuable.
[/quote]
My point was, the rich pay not only for their medicle bills, but also those of the people unable to pay.
[qoute][b]The rich provide jobs for millions of people, which allows those that WANT to to rise out of lower, and into middle class.
What E.T said.
[/b][/quote]
And yet, they still provide jobs....you can't deny that. Yes, there are layoffs, which usually occure when the company is not making a profit, and cannot afford to continue paying employees.
[quote]
I still don't think the rich help out that much.
[/quote]
They help out alot more then most people are willing to admit. And they certainly help out alot more then a lower to middle class citizen. Per doller, they help more then anyone else.
[quote]
The rich seem to enjoy spending much more frivolously than the poor, who will spend what little money they have on basic necessities to survive.
[/QUOTE]
Well, again, different nations, but let me tell you what the poor buy around here.
Beer. LOTS of that.
they order in pizza, usually 3-5 times a week
lottery tickes, usually 20+ a week
junk. meaning littly cutsy things that serve absolutly no purpose.
soda. lots of soda, candy, etc.
stereos, shoes, cloths, etc....
cable TV, usually all the premium chanels as well.
DVDs/VHS tapes. hundereds of them.
etc etc. JUNK in other words. If they just put that money in the bank, they would'nt BE poor, but as soon as they get it they spend it on junk.
again, may be different where you live. Around here, people that have money spend it much more wisely.
I think a certain black comedian said it best.
(Paraphrasing)
People wonder why black folk are poor, and white folk arn't.
you ever look at their shoes? They wear them til they have holes in em, look all dirty, ya know? You look at a black mans shoe, and it will look brand new! As soon as it gets a spot of dirt on it, he'll buy a new pair!
You see, Poor folk spend all their money trying to look rich, and rich folk save their money an ARE rich!
(End paraphrasing)
Sad, yet true.
Biggles<font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
I think we're both making too many generalisations here. :) There are rich people like the idealistic rich person that we both sound like we want, but there are also rich people who are greedy pricks. There are poor people who spend what little they get carefully, and there are poor people who are poor because they waste their money on things like alcohol, cigarettes, etc. Not all poor people spend their money trying to look rich, and not all rich people are greedy people trying to accumulate as much money as they can and only spending it on themselves.
As for the jobs: layoffs are also quite common when the accounting department says it means the company can make more money. Money comes before people to those in control of big companies more often than not.
The reason why the lower class pays for these silly unneeded things is probably because of lack of finantial education. My parents taught me to live below my means and that you can make the shittyist looking house look nice without buying stuff. I firmly believe personal finannces should be taught in public education to prevent the lower class from expelling any extra income they have. The reason why you see a lot of food stamps used at 7-11 and other mini marts is because no one taught them how to bargon shop!
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Biggles [/i]
[B]As for the jobs: layoffs are also quite common when the accounting department says it means the company can make more money. Money comes before people to those in control of big companies more often than not. [/B][/QUOTE]
And it goes also before environment.
For example let's take one of the biggest areas of industry: oil.
Last winter russian oil giants used same kind of single hulled rust bucket as Prestige (which breke in two pieces and sunk near coast of Purtugal) to transfer oil through baltic ocean from their oilharbors in end of Gulf of Finland.
And ice conditions very pretty bad in last winter, requiring specific ships reinforced against ice (and with more powerfull engines to prevent getting stuck).
[url]http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Newsroom/NewImages/images.php3?img_id=10900[/url]
So they said that ship was good enough and it has reinforcing in bow.
Well, of course it protects little ships bow, but what if ship gets stuck. Pack ice can crush sides of ships that aren't reinforced and are stuck in it. And even after that this ship was single hulled, meaning that if Ice crushes side, it breaks oil tanks.
In fact ship get stuck first time when it was about two hundred kms from port and needed icebreaker to get moving again. Well, little later it was stuck in ice again.
After lot of luck and help from two icebreakers oiltanker managed get to port and get its cargo.
Thank god (and those icebreakers) it didn't get stuck to ice in its return because oil disaster of this scale would have meant destruction of baltic ocean nature for many decades.
IMO even when operating at tropical waters all oil tankers(and other ships trasnferring chemicals) should be double hulled so that first bottom contact wouldn't cause disaster.
Also most of profits of drilling of oil goes to rich owners, local people get only small crumbs of it and in many cases destroyed/damaged environment.
That's why I'm against this "allmighty" globalization, free capitalism and power of money.
Comments
Actually the rich pay a signifigant majority of the taxes in the United States. The top 1% of income earners pay 30% of the nations tax burden. The top 10% pay 50% of all taxes and the bottom 40% are only asked to shoulder only about 1% of the tax burden. Source: [url]http://www.allegromedia.com/sugi/taxes/[/url]
[quote]In recent years it has been trend for big companies to kick out people so that they would make more profit and and to get stocks rising.
And rich owners are those who collect fruits of this.[/quote]
I would disagree that the rich are those that collect the fruits of rising stock prices. Some of the most powerful stock holders are not the rich investors, but large funds. Interests in many of these funds are usually held by "common" people. Almost every retierment fund invests in the stock market, whether its a teachers retirement or a state employee fund. Many "common" people have IRAs and 401ks These are some of the largest and most powerful stockholders on wall street and the people who benefit are the common person.
[B]I have no idea how that is supposed to work...[/b]
[/quote]
Neither have I actually, but I see it happen allll the time. Sad really.
[quote]
So you're saying we shouldn't help the less fortunate members of society? Why should they not get decent health treatment just because they don't have lots of money?
[/quote]
No, I'm stateing a fact. I agree that they should be helped, but the bare bones of it is, they cost money.
[quote]
The government provides such things using taxes from the general public. The rich can do it themselves in their own little way, but the government is the one with the capability to ensure even distribution.
This bit also makes me wonder if you've seen your parents have to deal with bad tenants. I know I have, and bad tenants are always annoying, whether they can afford to pay the rent easily or not. In fact, in my experience the ones who seem to be living closer to the edge tend to look after things better because they really need their deposit back if/when they move out.
[/quote]
"The rich can do it themselves in their own little way" ... how? By providing free housing, food, medicle, etc? They would go broke in a matter of weeks, sounds a *little* like a communistic society to me, share the welth equally etc. (Amazes me how many people feel that way too).
Different countries, different outlook I guess....here it entirely depends on the person, but from what I've seen (ANd had to clean up) Once it becomes apparent that they can not continue paying rent, they totally stop paying, trash the place, and force an eviction. Since the full legal proceedings of an eviction last 3 months....they live for free for three months, and cost my dad hundereds to thousands of dollers in repairs. The ones that actually keep the place clean are the ones that are only here while they look for a new place to live, or plan on living here for hte next 20 years.
[quote]
Well if you're expecting people to pay for health care then I guess you should expect to be charged a lot for something so valuable.
[/quote]
My point was, the rich pay not only for their medicle bills, but also those of the people unable to pay.
[qoute][b]The rich provide jobs for millions of people, which allows those that WANT to to rise out of lower, and into middle class.
What E.T said.
[/b][/quote]
And yet, they still provide jobs....you can't deny that. Yes, there are layoffs, which usually occure when the company is not making a profit, and cannot afford to continue paying employees.
[quote]
I still don't think the rich help out that much.
[/quote]
They help out alot more then most people are willing to admit. And they certainly help out alot more then a lower to middle class citizen. Per doller, they help more then anyone else.
[quote]
The rich seem to enjoy spending much more frivolously than the poor, who will spend what little money they have on basic necessities to survive.
[/QUOTE]
Well, again, different nations, but let me tell you what the poor buy around here.
Beer. LOTS of that.
they order in pizza, usually 3-5 times a week
lottery tickes, usually 20+ a week
junk. meaning littly cutsy things that serve absolutly no purpose.
soda. lots of soda, candy, etc.
stereos, shoes, cloths, etc....
cable TV, usually all the premium chanels as well.
DVDs/VHS tapes. hundereds of them.
etc etc. JUNK in other words. If they just put that money in the bank, they would'nt BE poor, but as soon as they get it they spend it on junk.
again, may be different where you live. Around here, people that have money spend it much more wisely.
I think a certain black comedian said it best.
(Paraphrasing)
People wonder why black folk are poor, and white folk arn't.
you ever look at their shoes? They wear them til they have holes in em, look all dirty, ya know? You look at a black mans shoe, and it will look brand new! As soon as it gets a spot of dirt on it, he'll buy a new pair!
You see, Poor folk spend all their money trying to look rich, and rich folk save their money an ARE rich!
(End paraphrasing)
Sad, yet true.
As for the jobs: layoffs are also quite common when the accounting department says it means the company can make more money. Money comes before people to those in control of big companies more often than not.
[B]I think we're both making too many generalisations here. :) [/B][/QUOTE]
quite possible. :D
God i need a dictionary!
[B]As for the jobs: layoffs are also quite common when the accounting department says it means the company can make more money. Money comes before people to those in control of big companies more often than not. [/B][/QUOTE]
And it goes also before environment.
For example let's take one of the biggest areas of industry: oil.
Last winter russian oil giants used same kind of single hulled rust bucket as Prestige (which breke in two pieces and sunk near coast of Purtugal) to transfer oil through baltic ocean from their oilharbors in end of Gulf of Finland.
And ice conditions very pretty bad in last winter, requiring specific ships reinforced against ice (and with more powerfull engines to prevent getting stuck).
[url]http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Newsroom/NewImages/images.php3?img_id=10900[/url]
So they said that ship was good enough and it has reinforcing in bow.
Well, of course it protects little ships bow, but what if ship gets stuck. Pack ice can crush sides of ships that aren't reinforced and are stuck in it. And even after that this ship was single hulled, meaning that if Ice crushes side, it breaks oil tanks.
In fact ship get stuck first time when it was about two hundred kms from port and needed icebreaker to get moving again. Well, little later it was stuck in ice again.
After lot of luck and help from two icebreakers oiltanker managed get to port and get its cargo.
Thank god (and those icebreakers) it didn't get stuck to ice in its return because oil disaster of this scale would have meant destruction of baltic ocean nature for many decades.
IMO even when operating at tropical waters all oil tankers(and other ships trasnferring chemicals) should be double hulled so that first bottom contact wouldn't cause disaster.
Also most of profits of drilling of oil goes to rich owners, local people get only small crumbs of it and in many cases destroyed/damaged environment.
That's why I'm against this "allmighty" globalization, free capitalism and power of money.