Japan sits on the 'ring of fire'... a very active seismic and volcanic edge of a tectonic plate... not where I want to build a very expensive new project, that said its politically stable to the point of almost stagnation, and the Japanese are famous for being very anal and obsessed with high tech. Pluses and minuses...
...and since when does the progress of humanity have to be linked to the USA ?
Let be the last time I pull your head out of your red white and blue butt Tyvar...
...lets build the sucker in the most geo and politically stable place we can find with ready access to the required boffins/power/infrastructure REGARDLESS OF THE FUCKING FLAG ON TOP !
Biggles<font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
SB, you still seem to be suggesting that we only use fusion power in space. Solar power is good, and should be used far more than it is, but it won't power the entire world. Fusion will be the cornerstone of any future energy supply system, because other renewable sources including solar (except far in the future where we have solar panels inside Mercury's orbit and have discovered some way better than microwave to get the energy back to Earth) simply won't be able to provide enough power even when combined. The transmission losses of a centralised fusion power station are not as great as the inefficiency of solar, and the way you put it it sounds like you think they're going to build one big fusion reactor in every country and leave it at that. It is possible to build smaller ones, you know. Personally, I would love for the roof of my house to be covered in solar panels and given the choice between that and a fusion reactor in the basement, I'd take the solar cells. Easier to maintain, less fuel required. But cigar cutters arn't the only thing that require power on this planet. Solar cells won't power a hydrogen generation facility that can produce hydrogen for use in fuel cells for use in cars.
Exactly Biggles. Solar power is great and all, but it only works so far. Fusion on the other hand will work anywhere anytime as long as you have enough fuel supply and coolant.
Biggles<font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
And when both your fuel and coolant are readily available in the form of water...
with increasing efficencies in every electrically powered device we have... inc solar cells... we may just find we dont NEED cubic assloads of power...
by way of example
100w incandecent blub = 3w LED cluster bulb
thats 3%....
we'll see how the cookie crumbles in the future...
and still you are feeding the beast...
you dont even think to question if you even need half the powered crap you have in your life... for instance...
if I was hit on the head one day and became totally unresponsible for my actions...
I'd keep a small army of proctologists busy removing leaf blowers...
"Its called a BROOM muthaferkas...BROOM!", quiet, good excerise, just as efficent, quiet and doesnt pollute the frikkin planet...
live SIMPLY... only use what you really need.
I can certianly see the use of microfusions to replace current coal and gas burning stations, thats ok... but STILL, my point is our freakin 'footprint' on this little tiny finite petri dish of a planet.
27 acres of dirt to sustain your average American... 18 for an Aussie... thats bordering on criminal when you see how little we do actually need to survive...
I dont much care if we stumble upon the 'Improbability Drive' tomorrow, and we all get limitless power from a nice hot cup of tea... (with lemon for military purposes)...the point is we shouldnt be USING as much as we do... were voracious and unrepentant consumers... of everything, power, resources, everything... and we breed like a virus...
I'm all for us getting out into the galaxy... I just would prefer it if we did it before we end up swimming in our own excrement, both literal and metaphorical and the only way to do that is to stop being total resource and energy whores...
the fact that at the moment solar cells limit our use of energy is a GOOD thing... teach us a few lessons about what may happen in the future if we dont stop guzzling away at the trough like the pigs we are.
and fuel cells for cars ?
fine... for the car you share between 5 families... you should damn well ride a bike or walk everywhere else.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by shadow boxer [/i]
[b]E.T, you do know what an Alpha particle is....right?[/b]
[B]yeah, Alpha Beta Gamma... rated if I remember for degrees of penetration...
alpha - a telephone book stops it
beta - thick steel
Gamma - bloody thick lead[/B][/QUOTE]
[i]Alpha rays are easily absorbed by materials and can travel only a few centimeters in air. They can be absorbed by tissue paper or the outer layers of human skin.[/i]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_ray[/url]
So alpha rays are only dangerous when they are released inside of your body! (because they can't travel in air or through your skin)
That requires you have eaten something which contains radioactive elements (or isotopes).
Other way for radioactive material to get inside you are your lungs. (you can inhale them when you breath)
And current fission reactors are those which produce those radioactive elements (/isotopes) that you can get inside your body. (and this waste remains dangerous thousands years)
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta_particle[/url]
[i] They are stopped completely by a few millimeters of aluminium[/i]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamma_rays[/url]
[i]Shielding for ? rays requires large amounts of mass. Shields that reduce gamma ray intensity by 50% include 1cm (0.4 inches) of lead, 6cm (2.4 inches) of concrete or 9cm (3.6 inches) of packed dirt.[/i]
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Eclecticonaut [/i]
[B]Majority of the Finnish people and government likes that idea and at least one additional reactor is going to be added to [url="http://www.helsinki-hs.net/news.asp?id=20031017IE4"]Olkiluoto plant[/url] and it should be in commercial operation by 2009. [/B][/QUOTE]
Yeah, and efficiency of this "radioactive waste producer" is 38 percent!
(It was in newspaper few days ago)
I think there wouldn't be any need for this reactor if all lights would be properly designed and aimed. (light should be directed to ground, not to the sky)
shadow boxer you're right in that current incandecent lamps are complete waste of energy. (excluding if your house has electric heating)
Politicians should give much more funding for research of LED-technology.
(but that's something what nuclear power industry doesn't want)
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by JackN [/i]
[B]I do agree that Solar power should be a much higher priority than it is or seems like it will be for decades to come.
Politicians = idiots[/B][/QUOTE]
But that won't happen, because of oil industry.
And also because of later.
And Bush Junior combines these both to same package.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Tyvar [/i]
[B]Maybe france should grow up.
Building it in Japan. makes sense from a cost/infrastructure sense.
"A more moderate climate" puhlease that is NOT a reason.
[/B][/QUOTE]
But their already established research and development site is. Plus Japan may be stable politically, but not geothermically.
Biggles<font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
You still seem fixated on the idea that consumer devices are the only thing that use electricity in this world, SB. They are a tiny part of it, and while things are getting more efficient all the time and we should be using a lot less than we do, we're still always going to have systems that require large quantities of electricity. Not everyone can ride a bike or walk to work (I can't, because the stupid council is too idiotic to put a walk/bike lane on our bridge, but that's another matter). Not everyone relies on cars. We will always need mass transport systems.
Anyway, your initial argument was that we don't need fusion reactors on Earth at all. You seem to have changed your tune a bit. Now you're arguing about a different thing entirely. :D
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Messiah [/i]
[B]But their already established research and development site is. Plus Japan may be stable politically, but not geothermically. [/B][/QUOTE]
An already established R&D site isnt as great an offset as easy access to manufacturing and transportation infrastructure. Its easier to build the R&D facilities (which are essentialy just office buildings honestly fairly plain vanila construction job)
As for the potential for earthquakes, Japan has alot of experience in hardning structures to resist such events, so I am not terribly worried there.
Biggles<font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
I think Japan would be a better place from the point of view of it having a much denser infrastructure that would benefit more from a fusion reactor.
Ive always maintained we need a fusion test bed... no more than that... unless you want to consider replacing existing fission stuff...
and Biggles... *FWAPP*
Electroplaters use ferkloads of current, electrically fire kilns for bricks, for pots for all sorts of shit... of course there are plenty of things that need juice outside of the mixmaster and the stereo...
Dads 14cfm air compressor runs at 3000W...
*starts banging on Biggles tank in rythm with a large mallet*
THE - POINT - IS - BIG - ELS... is that we dont friggin consider our energy usage... we SHOULD be able to rely on solar for most of our power requirements...
put it this way... it costs us something like 4gigajoules to make one ordinary suburban house brick... a straw bale (for legitmate and sound building), which replaces maybe 15 of those bricks atleast, with the benefit of a massive increase in insulation and thermal efficiency in the finished house...costs us 13 kilojoules.
You wouldnt need a 10hp 24amp, three phase powered air conditioner if you built your freakin home to suit your climate...or atleast put some decent insulation in the crap box house you have at the moment...
(I'm not targeting anyone specfically with these examples. )
and the list goes on...
Do I have to make it any clearer ?
We, globally, (or atleast 'western' globally, are energy sluts, pure and simple )
Biggles<font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by shadow boxer [/i]
[B]Ive always maintained we need a fusion test bed... no more than that... unless you want to consider replacing existing fission stuff...[/b][/quote]
Well, yeah... that is the general idea. Unless you like having them around pumping out all that radioactive toxic waste.
[quote][b]THE - POINT - IS - BIG - ELS... is that we dont friggin consider our energy usage... we SHOULD be able to rely on solar for most of our power requirements...
put it this way... it costs us something like 4gigajoules to make one ordinary suburban house brick... a straw bale (for legitmate and sound building), which replaces maybe 15 of those bricks atleast, with the benefit of a massive increase in insulation and thermal efficiency in the finished house...costs us 13 kilojoules.
You wouldnt need a 10hp 24amp, three phase powered air conditioner if you built your freakin home to suit your climate...or atleast put some decent insulation in the crap box house you have at the moment...
(I'm not targeting anyone specfically with these examples. )
and the list goes on...
Do I have to make it any clearer ?
We, globally, (or atleast 'western' globally, are energy sluts, pure and simple ) [/B][/QUOTE]
Hey, if you want to live in a straw house, you go right ahead. Personally, I happen to quite like the advances in technology that mean I don't have to live in a medieval style house. Sure, they take a bit more to build, but they're longer lasting. I do agree about building to the climate though and am glad that my house is both cool in summer and warm in winter without requiring huge amounts of heating or an airconditioning unit.
Either way, to support 6 (or more) billion people in the level of civilisation we consider decent, solar power simply won't be enough.
You have yet to present a single decent reason for not using fusion reactors on Earth, which is what I am arguing about. You're the one who seems to think that I don't understand the concepts of waste in the consumer society, when in fact I have had 4 years of papers on it. Now, I'm not going to bother continuing this with you because I think your argument is pointed at the wrong topic of discussion.
SB, nice to see you're trying to draw this 'debate' off-topic since you can't back yourself up with valid reasons why Fusion shouldn't be used on Earth. Instead of backing yourself up, you go ranting about us using too much power.
There is no valid reason why we couldn't use Fusion on Earth. Unlike Fission, its clean, and is FAR FAR FAR more efficient in means of generating power, and the risk is VERY minimal. E.T further proved my point by elaborating what alpha particles are, and how they can be shielded against.
Now before you go ranting about power usage again, I suggest you google up these magical things called control rods. You know, those things that control the reaction. You realize that they don't just let shit react uncontrolled, right?
Doing a PhD investigating the onset of the H-mode with a view to producing a neural net onset prediction system (for those who know anything about fusion).
CnlPepper - Will probably be working on ITER in the future....
the point I'm trying to make dear boardpersons is this...
fusion energy systems may be all well and good...
but what we dont need is another excuse for our race to get lazy and complacent again...
"Wheee... lots and lots of cheap energy, I can brush the cats teeth with his own electric toothbrush once every 3 weeks."
Our collective psyche in relation to energy is woeful. We use an absolute cubic assload, and rarely think about power much beyond the socket in the wall... and we scream blue bloody murder when its not there.
I have no problem whatsoever with building fusion powerplants... but I DONT want to see us humies build them on every street corner... so we can all have 1000W neon illuminated house numbers...
We pump out millions of joules of light, heat, and other sorts of energy every day, along with a host of much more literal pollutants, either deliberately, as byproducts or just out of sheer ignorance. So few of us 'tread gently' on the Earth.
I dont want a Fusion reactor in my neighbourhood if its going to encourage the sedantary, corpulent lazy assholes who dont give two fucks about this tiny little rock we live on. We're only a thin smear of grease on the very surface of this globe, we have so little respect for our position, it makes me weep.
I'm not an energy wowser, but I sure as hell think about the energy I use every day and ask myself, "Do I really need to switch that on?" It's 37°C here today... and I havent turned on the AC. I'm a little uncomfortable but nothing a tall Coke isnt fixing.
In short, its not the reactor itself that bothers me... its the potential midset of misuse that could follow.
~~~~
Biggles, theres nothing medieval about a modern straw bale house. I can build you one, that other than the very apparent and quite appealing, thick walls, is no diffrent to the modern McHouse you see in the yuppiefarms. The invested energy in building it is about 20% of that of the McHouse.
You can still have your mod cons, but you dont have to use the ones you simply dont need. A properly built bale house needs a tiny fraction of the energy a McHouse needs for climate control, if indeed you are so soft as to require a 3 or 4 ° tempreture range.
Stuff this up your browser :
[url]http://strawbale.archinet.com.au/[/url]
Read the intro about our energy usage in the building trade...
sobering stuff.
~~~~
Collary to Murphys Law..
"The more complex you make anything the more likely you make it that things will go wrong."
fission reactor = about as complex a system as it gets
control rods jam, terrorists like power stations for targets... can you add something maliciously to the fusion process to make it dangerous ???
~~~~
[B]We should all live as simply as our genuine requirements allow.[/B]
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by shadow boxer [/i]
[B]the point I'm trying to make dear boardpersons is this...
fusion energy systems may be all well and good...
but what we dont need is another excuse for our race to get lazy and complacent again...
"Wheee... lots and lots of cheap energy, I can brush the cats teeth with his own electric toothbrush once every 3 weeks."
Our collective psyche in relation to energy is woeful. We use an absolute cubic assload, and rarely think about power much beyond the socket in the wall... and we scream blue bloody murder when its not there.
I have no problem whatsoever with building fusion powerplants... but I DONT want to see us humies build them on every street corner... so we can all have 1000W neon illuminated house numbers...
We pump out millions of joules of light, heat, and other sorts of energy every day, along with a host of much more literal pollutants, either deliberately, as byproducts or just out of sheer ignorance. So few of us 'tread gently' on the Earth.
I dont want a Fusion reactor in my neighbourhood if its going to encourage the sedantary, corpulent lazy assholes who dont give two fucks about this tiny little rock we live on. We're only a thin smear of grease on the very surface of this globe, we have so little respect for our position, it makes me weep.
I'm not an energy wowser, but I sure as hell think about the energy I use every day and ask myself, "Do I really need to switch that on?" It's 37°C here today... and I havent turned on the AC. I'm a little uncomfortable but nothing a tall Coke isnt fixing.
In short, its not the reactor itself that bothers me... its the potential midset of misuse that could follow.[/B][/QUOTE]
Blah, blah, blah. You can't back yourself up so you try to drag it off-topic. Concession accepted.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Biggles [/i]
[B]Hey, if you want to live in a straw house, you go right ahead. Personally, I happen to quite like the advances in technology that mean I don't have to live in a medieval style house. Sure, they take a bit more to build, but they're longer lasting.[/B][/QUOTE]
Say that to the average medieval castle. (or palace if youre in the middle east). Been here for far longer than any building I expect anyone of us is living in.
And I do agree on SB in that humanity shouldnt become more lazy than it already is. Other than that. Fusion power, cant get there soon enough.
Comments
...and since when does the progress of humanity have to be linked to the USA ?
Let be the last time I pull your head out of your red white and blue butt Tyvar...
...lets build the sucker in the most geo and politically stable place we can find with ready access to the required boffins/power/infrastructure REGARDLESS OF THE FUCKING FLAG ON TOP !
by way of example
100w incandecent blub = 3w LED cluster bulb
thats 3%....
we'll see how the cookie crumbles in the future...
and still you are feeding the beast...
you dont even think to question if you even need half the powered crap you have in your life... for instance...
if I was hit on the head one day and became totally unresponsible for my actions...
I'd keep a small army of proctologists busy removing leaf blowers...
"Its called a BROOM muthaferkas...BROOM!", quiet, good excerise, just as efficent, quiet and doesnt pollute the frikkin planet...
live SIMPLY... only use what you really need.
I can certianly see the use of microfusions to replace current coal and gas burning stations, thats ok... but STILL, my point is our freakin 'footprint' on this little tiny finite petri dish of a planet.
27 acres of dirt to sustain your average American... 18 for an Aussie... thats bordering on criminal when you see how little we do actually need to survive...
I dont much care if we stumble upon the 'Improbability Drive' tomorrow, and we all get limitless power from a nice hot cup of tea... (with lemon for military purposes)...the point is we shouldnt be USING as much as we do... were voracious and unrepentant consumers... of everything, power, resources, everything... and we breed like a virus...
I'm all for us getting out into the galaxy... I just would prefer it if we did it before we end up swimming in our own excrement, both literal and metaphorical and the only way to do that is to stop being total resource and energy whores...
the fact that at the moment solar cells limit our use of energy is a GOOD thing... teach us a few lessons about what may happen in the future if we dont stop guzzling away at the trough like the pigs we are.
and fuel cells for cars ?
fine... for the car you share between 5 families... you should damn well ride a bike or walk everywhere else.
Am I getting the message across ??
[b]E.T, you do know what an Alpha particle is....right?[/b]
[B]yeah, Alpha Beta Gamma... rated if I remember for degrees of penetration...
alpha - a telephone book stops it
beta - thick steel
Gamma - bloody thick lead[/B][/QUOTE]
[i]Alpha rays are easily absorbed by materials and can travel only a few centimeters in air. They can be absorbed by tissue paper or the outer layers of human skin.[/i]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_ray[/url]
So alpha rays are only dangerous when they are released inside of your body! (because they can't travel in air or through your skin)
That requires you have eaten something which contains radioactive elements (or isotopes).
Other way for radioactive material to get inside you are your lungs. (you can inhale them when you breath)
And current fission reactors are those which produce those radioactive elements (/isotopes) that you can get inside your body. (and this waste remains dangerous thousands years)
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta_particle[/url]
[i] They are stopped completely by a few millimeters of aluminium[/i]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamma_rays[/url]
[i]Shielding for ? rays requires large amounts of mass. Shields that reduce gamma ray intensity by 50% include 1cm (0.4 inches) of lead, 6cm (2.4 inches) of concrete or 9cm (3.6 inches) of packed dirt.[/i]
[B]Majority of the Finnish people and government likes that idea and at least one additional reactor is going to be added to [url="http://www.helsinki-hs.net/news.asp?id=20031017IE4"]Olkiluoto plant[/url] and it should be in commercial operation by 2009. [/B][/QUOTE]
Yeah, and efficiency of this "radioactive waste producer" is 38 percent!
(It was in newspaper few days ago)
I think there wouldn't be any need for this reactor if all lights would be properly designed and aimed. (light should be directed to ground, not to the sky)
shadow boxer you're right in that current incandecent lamps are complete waste of energy. (excluding if your house has electric heating)
Politicians should give much more funding for research of LED-technology.
(but that's something what nuclear power industry doesn't want)
[B]I do agree that Solar power should be a much higher priority than it is or seems like it will be for decades to come.
Politicians = idiots[/B][/QUOTE]
But that won't happen, because of oil industry.
And also because of later.
And Bush Junior combines these both to same package.
[B]Maybe france should grow up.
Building it in Japan. makes sense from a cost/infrastructure sense.
"A more moderate climate" puhlease that is NOT a reason.
[/B][/QUOTE]
But their already established research and development site is. Plus Japan may be stable politically, but not geothermically.
Anyway, your initial argument was that we don't need fusion reactors on Earth at all. You seem to have changed your tune a bit. Now you're arguing about a different thing entirely. :D
[B]But their already established research and development site is. Plus Japan may be stable politically, but not geothermically. [/B][/QUOTE]
An already established R&D site isnt as great an offset as easy access to manufacturing and transportation infrastructure. Its easier to build the R&D facilities (which are essentialy just office buildings honestly fairly plain vanila construction job)
As for the potential for earthquakes, Japan has alot of experience in hardning structures to resist such events, so I am not terribly worried there.
and Biggles... *FWAPP*
Electroplaters use ferkloads of current, electrically fire kilns for bricks, for pots for all sorts of shit... of course there are plenty of things that need juice outside of the mixmaster and the stereo...
Dads 14cfm air compressor runs at 3000W...
*starts banging on Biggles tank in rythm with a large mallet*
THE - POINT - IS - BIG - ELS... is that we dont friggin consider our energy usage... we SHOULD be able to rely on solar for most of our power requirements...
put it this way... it costs us something like 4gigajoules to make one ordinary suburban house brick... a straw bale (for legitmate and sound building), which replaces maybe 15 of those bricks atleast, with the benefit of a massive increase in insulation and thermal efficiency in the finished house...costs us 13 kilojoules.
You wouldnt need a 10hp 24amp, three phase powered air conditioner if you built your freakin home to suit your climate...or atleast put some decent insulation in the crap box house you have at the moment...
(I'm not targeting anyone specfically with these examples. )
and the list goes on...
Do I have to make it any clearer ?
We, globally, (or atleast 'western' globally, are energy sluts, pure and simple )
[B]Ive always maintained we need a fusion test bed... no more than that... unless you want to consider replacing existing fission stuff...[/b][/quote]
Well, yeah... that is the general idea. Unless you like having them around pumping out all that radioactive toxic waste.
[quote][b]THE - POINT - IS - BIG - ELS... is that we dont friggin consider our energy usage... we SHOULD be able to rely on solar for most of our power requirements...
put it this way... it costs us something like 4gigajoules to make one ordinary suburban house brick... a straw bale (for legitmate and sound building), which replaces maybe 15 of those bricks atleast, with the benefit of a massive increase in insulation and thermal efficiency in the finished house...costs us 13 kilojoules.
You wouldnt need a 10hp 24amp, three phase powered air conditioner if you built your freakin home to suit your climate...or atleast put some decent insulation in the crap box house you have at the moment...
(I'm not targeting anyone specfically with these examples. )
and the list goes on...
Do I have to make it any clearer ?
We, globally, (or atleast 'western' globally, are energy sluts, pure and simple ) [/B][/QUOTE]
Hey, if you want to live in a straw house, you go right ahead. Personally, I happen to quite like the advances in technology that mean I don't have to live in a medieval style house. Sure, they take a bit more to build, but they're longer lasting. I do agree about building to the climate though and am glad that my house is both cool in summer and warm in winter without requiring huge amounts of heating or an airconditioning unit.
Either way, to support 6 (or more) billion people in the level of civilisation we consider decent, solar power simply won't be enough.
You have yet to present a single decent reason for not using fusion reactors on Earth, which is what I am arguing about. You're the one who seems to think that I don't understand the concepts of waste in the consumer society, when in fact I have had 4 years of papers on it. Now, I'm not going to bother continuing this with you because I think your argument is pointed at the wrong topic of discussion.
There is no valid reason why we couldn't use Fusion on Earth. Unlike Fission, its clean, and is FAR FAR FAR more efficient in means of generating power, and the risk is VERY minimal. E.T further proved my point by elaborating what alpha particles are, and how they can be shielded against.
Now before you go ranting about power usage again, I suggest you google up these magical things called control rods. You know, those things that control the reaction. You realize that they don't just let shit react uncontrolled, right?
.... I work on the JET reactor at culham :)
Doing a PhD investigating the onset of the H-mode with a view to producing a neural net onset prediction system (for those who know anything about fusion).
CnlPepper - Will probably be working on ITER in the future....
fusion energy systems may be all well and good...
but what we dont need is another excuse for our race to get lazy and complacent again...
"Wheee... lots and lots of cheap energy, I can brush the cats teeth with his own electric toothbrush once every 3 weeks."
Our collective psyche in relation to energy is woeful. We use an absolute cubic assload, and rarely think about power much beyond the socket in the wall... and we scream blue bloody murder when its not there.
I have no problem whatsoever with building fusion powerplants... but I DONT want to see us humies build them on every street corner... so we can all have 1000W neon illuminated house numbers...
We pump out millions of joules of light, heat, and other sorts of energy every day, along with a host of much more literal pollutants, either deliberately, as byproducts or just out of sheer ignorance. So few of us 'tread gently' on the Earth.
I dont want a Fusion reactor in my neighbourhood if its going to encourage the sedantary, corpulent lazy assholes who dont give two fucks about this tiny little rock we live on. We're only a thin smear of grease on the very surface of this globe, we have so little respect for our position, it makes me weep.
I'm not an energy wowser, but I sure as hell think about the energy I use every day and ask myself, "Do I really need to switch that on?" It's 37°C here today... and I havent turned on the AC. I'm a little uncomfortable but nothing a tall Coke isnt fixing.
In short, its not the reactor itself that bothers me... its the potential midset of misuse that could follow.
~~~~
Biggles, theres nothing medieval about a modern straw bale house. I can build you one, that other than the very apparent and quite appealing, thick walls, is no diffrent to the modern McHouse you see in the yuppiefarms. The invested energy in building it is about 20% of that of the McHouse.
You can still have your mod cons, but you dont have to use the ones you simply dont need. A properly built bale house needs a tiny fraction of the energy a McHouse needs for climate control, if indeed you are so soft as to require a 3 or 4 ° tempreture range.
Stuff this up your browser :
[url]http://strawbale.archinet.com.au/[/url]
Read the intro about our energy usage in the building trade...
sobering stuff.
~~~~
Collary to Murphys Law..
"The more complex you make anything the more likely you make it that things will go wrong."
fission reactor = about as complex a system as it gets
control rods jam, terrorists like power stations for targets... can you add something maliciously to the fusion process to make it dangerous ???
~~~~
[B]We should all live as simply as our genuine requirements allow.[/B]
~~~~
Cool Cnl... please keep us loopwise ! :)
[B]the point I'm trying to make dear boardpersons is this...
fusion energy systems may be all well and good...
but what we dont need is another excuse for our race to get lazy and complacent again...
"Wheee... lots and lots of cheap energy, I can brush the cats teeth with his own electric toothbrush once every 3 weeks."
Our collective psyche in relation to energy is woeful. We use an absolute cubic assload, and rarely think about power much beyond the socket in the wall... and we scream blue bloody murder when its not there.
I have no problem whatsoever with building fusion powerplants... but I DONT want to see us humies build them on every street corner... so we can all have 1000W neon illuminated house numbers...
We pump out millions of joules of light, heat, and other sorts of energy every day, along with a host of much more literal pollutants, either deliberately, as byproducts or just out of sheer ignorance. So few of us 'tread gently' on the Earth.
I dont want a Fusion reactor in my neighbourhood if its going to encourage the sedantary, corpulent lazy assholes who dont give two fucks about this tiny little rock we live on. We're only a thin smear of grease on the very surface of this globe, we have so little respect for our position, it makes me weep.
I'm not an energy wowser, but I sure as hell think about the energy I use every day and ask myself, "Do I really need to switch that on?" It's 37°C here today... and I havent turned on the AC. I'm a little uncomfortable but nothing a tall Coke isnt fixing.
In short, its not the reactor itself that bothers me... its the potential midset of misuse that could follow.[/B][/QUOTE]
Blah, blah, blah. You can't back yourself up so you try to drag it off-topic. Concession accepted.
[B]Hey, if you want to live in a straw house, you go right ahead. Personally, I happen to quite like the advances in technology that mean I don't have to live in a medieval style house. Sure, they take a bit more to build, but they're longer lasting.[/B][/QUOTE]
Say that to the average medieval castle. (or palace if youre in the middle east). Been here for far longer than any building I expect anyone of us is living in.
And I do agree on SB in that humanity shouldnt become more lazy than it already is. Other than that. Fusion power, cant get there soon enough.
[img]http://vertigo12.freeyellow.com/dummies.gif[/img]
I suggest you raid the local Barnes & Noble for a copy sb. :) You could definitely use it.