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Fusion, here we come?

BigglesBiggles <font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
[url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3336701.stm[/url]

Apparently, the last stage before building commercial, sustained reaction reactors.
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Comments

  • CurZCurZ Resident Hippy
    For christ's sake, just put it somewhere and get started on the damn project! :mad:
  • BigglesBiggles <font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
    I think the whole thing with the US not wanting it in France because France opposed the war in Iraq is one of the most pathetic things I have ever heard.
  • CurZCurZ Resident Hippy
    Yes, especially when this has nothing to do with something as petty as the damned war in Iraq. Would it be too much to ask to think of the big picture instead of being petty and hindering the advancement of science?
  • Actually I don't think the Iraq war has anything to do with it. It's the lucrative subcontructor deals that are making the rift
  • BigglesBiggles <font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
    Nope. Everyone must only think of themselves.

    It's so fucking stupid.
  • shadow boxershadow boxer The Finger Painter & Master Ranter
    you guys sound suprised....

    I long for a time when idealism rules...

    not going to happen with the large ammount of hidebound concrete headed fuckwits on this little rock...

    on another note... the reactor itself looks interesting... looks like a humungus torroidal winding... in other words they may be containing the plasma with a magnetic field...

    heh...

    aint it funny how Sci-fi tends to predict every
    damned thing..:)
  • E.TE.T Quote-o-matic
    [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by shadow boxer [/i]
    [B]on another note... the reactor itself looks interesting... looks like a humungus torroidal winding... in other words they may be containing the plasma with a magnetic field...
    [/B][/QUOTE]
    Of course they'll have to use magnetic fields to control plasma.
    It can't be done with "steel box".
    If plasma touches inner surface of reactor it cools.

    [url]http://www.iter.org/[/url]
  • shadow boxershadow boxer The Finger Painter & Master Ranter
    well soo-rry Mister Brainiac Sir...

    us poor uniformed plebs should deign to your superior intelect in all things...

    or.. if you prefer

    BITE ME
  • WHYWHY Elite Ranger
    [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by shadow boxer [/i]
    [B]well soo-rry Mister Brainiac Sir...

    us poor uniformed plebs should deign to your superior intelect in all things...

    or.. if you prefer

    BITE ME [/B][/QUOTE]

    [IMG]http://members.lycos.co.uk/heshakesthesky/dmb.jpg[/IMG]
  • shadow boxershadow boxer The Finger Painter & Master Ranter
    sheesh, what an inordinately complex beastie it is...

    and all those polar opposites involved... cryogenically cooling the magnets for superconductivity... and then having sun hot plasma a metre away at the most...

    gawd...

    10Gw in... 6.25mw out..:D

    (or thats how it seems to the layperson)

    I really wonder... considering the price of solar power has dropped 800% over the last 25 years...and its continuing to do so

    Not to put the mockers on progress but why bother ? I mean seriously...

    build one in orbit yes... good idea.. but here on this rock ?... no point, unless of course it remains as a testbed only.

    The billions of bucks invested could by a cubic assload of tracking solar arrays...

    and no risky high energy, highly complex. possibly radio active crap to worry about, with no real footprint (seeing as most cells/arrays go on rooftops)

    theres alot to be said for living simply

    theres also Murhpys collary...

    "The more complex a system is the more likely it is to go wrong."

    The rare earth magentic windings alone sound about as robust as space shuttle tiles...
  • shadow boxershadow boxer The Finger Painter & Master Ranter
    you want some too WHY ?

    I was making a comment on ET's condecending tone... naught else

    Butt flavoured teeth to you 2...
  • WHYWHY Elite Ranger
    :p
  • BigglesBiggles <font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
    Rare earth magnet windings arn't anywhere near as likely to fail as space shuttle tiles. A poor comparison if ever I've heard one.

    As for why bother? Well, why not? The initial extreme inbalance in power in to power out ratio is for starting the reaction. The whole damn point of this experiment is to attempt a sustained reaction, where you get a shitload more power out than you have to put in to sustain the magnetic field. Solar energy is nice and all, but it will never be as efficient as fusion power has the potential to be, and it's far less portable. You can't send a solar powered space craft to another star and expect it to function all the way there at a high level as well.

    I'd also like to point out that fusion does not produce "possibly high radioactive crap". You get a little bit of radiation that is easily absorbed by a basic concrete shield. No radioactive by products, certainly not to the degree of a fission reactor. Add to that an abundant fuel source and you've got an energy source that's cleaner than solar panels (ever considered the quantity of materials and waste that would go into and come out of building the number of solar panels you suggested?). Yes, we should consider other energy sources as well, but there's no sense in ignoring one with huge potential just because it isn't working yet.
  • ShadowDancerShadowDancer When I say, "Why aye, gadgie," in my heart I say, "Och aye, laddie." London, UK
    [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by shadow boxer [/i]
    [B]I really wonder... considering the price of solar power has dropped 800% over the last 25 years...and its continuing to do so

    Not to put the mockers on progress but why bother ? I mean seriously...[/B][/QUOTE]

    Point to bear in mind tho is that this is all just a testbed. With any luck in a few decades, this will be like comparing a 1950's computer with one of todays hotrod supercomputers! At the moment it may not seem like its worth the expense, but if they can get all the wrinkles smoothed out, [I]then[/I] it will be worth it!



    (btw, is it me or does the central part of the reactor remind anyone else of a warp core?)
  • Inside the JET (Joint European Torus) Tokamak reactor in Culham Science Centre, Oxfordshire, UK:

    [img]http://www.jet.efda.org/images/J98103-600x432.jpg[/img]

    [img]http://www.jet.efda.org/images/J9443med.jpg[/img]

    Doesn't this look very similar to inside view of a Borg sphere?

    [url]http://www.startrekdb.se/multimedia/bilder/voy/utomjordingar/borg/borg.php?i=borg_sphere_ins.jpg[/url]

    Edit: somehow the picture of the sphere doesn't work anymore so at least a direct link does the job.
  • WHYWHY Elite Ranger
    if anything, it kinda reminds me of one of Unicron's "internal views"...
  • MessiahMessiah Failed Experiment
    The U.S. government should grow up.
  • BigglesBiggles <font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
    Tokamaks looks damn cool, if you ask me. :)
  • Vertigo1Vertigo1 Official Fuzzy Dice of FirstOnes.com
    [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Biggles [/i]
    [B]I'd also like to point out that fusion does not produce "possibly high radioactive crap". You get a little bit of radiation that is easily absorbed by a basic concrete shield. No radioactive by products, certainly not to the degree of a fission reactor. Add to that an abundant fuel source and you've got an energy source that's cleaner than solar panels (ever considered the quantity of materials and waste that would go into and come out of building the number of solar panels you suggested?). Yes, we should consider other energy sources as well, but there's no sense in ignoring one with huge potential just because it isn't working yet. [/B][/QUOTE]

    EXACTLY! But try to tell that to the stupid anti-nuclear nuts....and lets just say it goes in one ear and out the other. Fusion is one of the few clean and cheap energy sources that produces VERY LITTLE radioactive byproducts of any kind.

    Now before SB decides to post something on the hazards of nuclear reactors, I guess I should make a note that in every nuclear plant there are safety systems ontop of safety systems ontop of safety systems ontop of safety systems. Hell, the damn reactors are shielded so much that a 747 could fly full throttle into the concrete shield and it would still withstand the impact.
  • BigglesBiggles <font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
    Modern nuclear reactor designs are ludicrously safe. The problem is that noone wants to build one because noone likes the idea of building more nuclear reactors. :)
  • [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Messiah [/i]
    [B]The U.S. government should grow up. [/B][/QUOTE]

    That wont be happening for a very long time.

    Now remember!!!

    [img]http://zoom.cafepress.com/2/1289862_zoom.jpg[/img]
  • E.TE.T Quote-o-matic
    [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Vertigo1 [/i]
    [B]EXACTLY! But try to tell that to the stupid anti-nuclear nuts....and lets just say it goes in one ear and out the other. Fusion is one of the few clean and cheap energy sources that produces VERY LITTLE radioactive byproducts of any kind.[/B][/QUOTE]
    Normal fusion reaction which uses hydrogen's isotopes produces only energy and helium.
    It doesn't produce any radioactive lements. (or isotopes)

    Fission reaction is that which produces radioactice "byproducts".
    And all current nuclear powerplants are this type.


    Few links:
    [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_fusion[/url]
    [url]http://science.howstuffworks.com/sun2.htm[/url]
  • pssssh thats nothing... my assembly language programming instructor has a singularity reactor... I SWEAR! i know cause every time we go into her classroom time slows down due to the intense gravimetric fields... and 1.5 hours seems like 1.5 days! i just... dunno where she's hiding it... maybe it's in her abnormaly large ass... i dunno... all i know is she's using it to power her brain-drain ray... cause i swear we're all zombies by the end of it.



    ON A MORE REALISTIC NOTE:
    i'll be happy when i have a fusion powered flying car... haven't u seen old government tapes and stuff from the 60's? we're supposed to have fusion powered flying cars by now... :: looks up :: i don't see no flying cars... i want my fusion powered flying car.:rolleyes:
  • [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Biggles [/i]
    [B]Modern nuclear reactor designs are ludicrously safe. The problem is that noone wants to build one because noone likes the idea of building more nuclear reactors. :) [/B][/QUOTE]
    Majority of the Finnish people and government likes that idea and at least one additional reactor is going to be added to [url="http://www.helsinki-hs.net/news.asp?id=20031017IE4"]Olkiluoto plant[/url] and it should be in commercial operation by 2009.
  • BigglesBiggles <font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
    I seem to recall that you do get some radiation from a fusion reaction (one of the three rays, can't remember which now), but like I said earlier it's easily stopped with a basic concrete shield.
  • Vertigo1Vertigo1 Official Fuzzy Dice of FirstOnes.com
    [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by E.T [/i]
    [B]Normal fusion reaction which uses hydrogen's isotopes produces only energy and helium.
    It doesn't produce any radioactive lements. (or isotopes) [/B][/QUOTE]

    E.T, you do know what an Alpha particle is....right?
  • BigglesBiggles <font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
    Ah, that's the one. :)
  • shadow boxershadow boxer The Finger Painter & Master Ranter
    yeah, Alpha Beta Gamma... rated if I remember for degrees of penetration...

    alpha - a telephone book stops it
    beta - thick steel
    Gamma - bloody thick lead

    I guess we'll see in regards to fusion power.. as I said... I have no problems with fusion power in space... dang good idea...

    the point is Big L's that huge centralised power stations are by thier very nature inefficient because you have by default, huge transmission losses. Big power stations should be for industry only and intensely localised to minimise such things.

    There are no steps between catching the energy and using it (albeit we still store some in batteries for re-use) in a solar system. What's the real problem ? Hmmm ? Methinks you're in love with sexy high tech Fission, making love to a tired old solar cell just doesnt do it for you...:)

    When we go looking for ways to tap a fission reactor my bet it will be heat=steam=turbine=electricity... and each step we'll be losing juice. Even assuming there will be buckets spare...all that invested energy/resources for what ? A boffins wet dream ?

    Even heat these days is a pollutant...

    sure people... power starships with fusion... I have zero problem with that... but power your electric cigar cutters with solar...
  • TyvarTyvar Next best thing to a St. Bernard
    [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Messiah [/i]
    [B]The U.S. government should grow up. [/B][/QUOTE]

    Maybe france should grow up.

    Building it in Japan. makes sense from a cost/infrastructure sense.

    "A more moderate climate" puhlease that is NOT a reason.


    Essentialy what you have is two power blocks, and the US is coming down on the Asian side of afairs.. I hate to say it, but here in the left cost of the US we are WAY more tied to the asia pacific region then europe, and thats where our interests lie
  • JackNJackN <font color=#99FF99>Lightwave Alien</font>
    I have to say that the images above are awesome. I couldn't have done a better job in Lightwave... ;)

    Fusion power, in space or on Earth, fine by me. I think it's a must for space travel. We have to push on in our learning process, and to do all those wonderful things in space would be so much more costly than on the ground. Let's not forget the current status of our space shuttles and the like to get the mass up there...

    I do agree that Solar power should be a much higher priority than it is or seems like it will be for decades to come.

    Politicians = idiots

    I see one day in the future when we have all pulled our collective heads out of our collective asses, where floating stations in orbit and elsewhere in the solar system have mastered both fusion and solar power.

    I mean really, we have a natural fusion reactor at our disposal... and it can be an excellent and cheap catalyst for other ventures and systems we design.

    :rolleyes:
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