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Fusion, here we come?
Biggles
<font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
in Zocalo v2.0
[url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3336701.stm[/url]
Apparently, the last stage before building commercial, sustained reaction reactors.
Apparently, the last stage before building commercial, sustained reaction reactors.
Comments
It's so fucking stupid.
I long for a time when idealism rules...
not going to happen with the large ammount of hidebound concrete headed fuckwits on this little rock...
on another note... the reactor itself looks interesting... looks like a humungus torroidal winding... in other words they may be containing the plasma with a magnetic field...
heh...
aint it funny how Sci-fi tends to predict every
damned thing..:)
[B]on another note... the reactor itself looks interesting... looks like a humungus torroidal winding... in other words they may be containing the plasma with a magnetic field...
[/B][/QUOTE]
Of course they'll have to use magnetic fields to control plasma.
It can't be done with "steel box".
If plasma touches inner surface of reactor it cools.
[url]http://www.iter.org/[/url]
us poor uniformed plebs should deign to your superior intelect in all things...
or.. if you prefer
BITE ME
[B]well soo-rry Mister Brainiac Sir...
us poor uniformed plebs should deign to your superior intelect in all things...
or.. if you prefer
BITE ME [/B][/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://members.lycos.co.uk/heshakesthesky/dmb.jpg[/IMG]
and all those polar opposites involved... cryogenically cooling the magnets for superconductivity... and then having sun hot plasma a metre away at the most...
gawd...
10Gw in... 6.25mw out..:D
(or thats how it seems to the layperson)
I really wonder... considering the price of solar power has dropped 800% over the last 25 years...and its continuing to do so
Not to put the mockers on progress but why bother ? I mean seriously...
build one in orbit yes... good idea.. but here on this rock ?... no point, unless of course it remains as a testbed only.
The billions of bucks invested could by a cubic assload of tracking solar arrays...
and no risky high energy, highly complex. possibly radio active crap to worry about, with no real footprint (seeing as most cells/arrays go on rooftops)
theres alot to be said for living simply
theres also Murhpys collary...
"The more complex a system is the more likely it is to go wrong."
The rare earth magentic windings alone sound about as robust as space shuttle tiles...
I was making a comment on ET's condecending tone... naught else
Butt flavoured teeth to you 2...
As for why bother? Well, why not? The initial extreme inbalance in power in to power out ratio is for starting the reaction. The whole damn point of this experiment is to attempt a sustained reaction, where you get a shitload more power out than you have to put in to sustain the magnetic field. Solar energy is nice and all, but it will never be as efficient as fusion power has the potential to be, and it's far less portable. You can't send a solar powered space craft to another star and expect it to function all the way there at a high level as well.
I'd also like to point out that fusion does not produce "possibly high radioactive crap". You get a little bit of radiation that is easily absorbed by a basic concrete shield. No radioactive by products, certainly not to the degree of a fission reactor. Add to that an abundant fuel source and you've got an energy source that's cleaner than solar panels (ever considered the quantity of materials and waste that would go into and come out of building the number of solar panels you suggested?). Yes, we should consider other energy sources as well, but there's no sense in ignoring one with huge potential just because it isn't working yet.
[B]I really wonder... considering the price of solar power has dropped 800% over the last 25 years...and its continuing to do so
Not to put the mockers on progress but why bother ? I mean seriously...[/B][/QUOTE]
Point to bear in mind tho is that this is all just a testbed. With any luck in a few decades, this will be like comparing a 1950's computer with one of todays hotrod supercomputers! At the moment it may not seem like its worth the expense, but if they can get all the wrinkles smoothed out, [I]then[/I] it will be worth it!
(btw, is it me or does the central part of the reactor remind anyone else of a warp core?)
[img]http://www.jet.efda.org/images/J98103-600x432.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.jet.efda.org/images/J9443med.jpg[/img]
Doesn't this look very similar to inside view of a Borg sphere?
[url]http://www.startrekdb.se/multimedia/bilder/voy/utomjordingar/borg/borg.php?i=borg_sphere_ins.jpg[/url]
Edit: somehow the picture of the sphere doesn't work anymore so at least a direct link does the job.
[B]I'd also like to point out that fusion does not produce "possibly high radioactive crap". You get a little bit of radiation that is easily absorbed by a basic concrete shield. No radioactive by products, certainly not to the degree of a fission reactor. Add to that an abundant fuel source and you've got an energy source that's cleaner than solar panels (ever considered the quantity of materials and waste that would go into and come out of building the number of solar panels you suggested?). Yes, we should consider other energy sources as well, but there's no sense in ignoring one with huge potential just because it isn't working yet. [/B][/QUOTE]
EXACTLY! But try to tell that to the stupid anti-nuclear nuts....and lets just say it goes in one ear and out the other. Fusion is one of the few clean and cheap energy sources that produces VERY LITTLE radioactive byproducts of any kind.
Now before SB decides to post something on the hazards of nuclear reactors, I guess I should make a note that in every nuclear plant there are safety systems ontop of safety systems ontop of safety systems ontop of safety systems. Hell, the damn reactors are shielded so much that a 747 could fly full throttle into the concrete shield and it would still withstand the impact.
[B]The U.S. government should grow up. [/B][/QUOTE]
That wont be happening for a very long time.
Now remember!!!
[img]http://zoom.cafepress.com/2/1289862_zoom.jpg[/img]
[B]EXACTLY! But try to tell that to the stupid anti-nuclear nuts....and lets just say it goes in one ear and out the other. Fusion is one of the few clean and cheap energy sources that produces VERY LITTLE radioactive byproducts of any kind.[/B][/QUOTE]
Normal fusion reaction which uses hydrogen's isotopes produces only energy and helium.
It doesn't produce any radioactive lements. (or isotopes)
Fission reaction is that which produces radioactice "byproducts".
And all current nuclear powerplants are this type.
Few links:
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_fusion[/url]
[url]http://science.howstuffworks.com/sun2.htm[/url]
ON A MORE REALISTIC NOTE:
i'll be happy when i have a fusion powered flying car... haven't u seen old government tapes and stuff from the 60's? we're supposed to have fusion powered flying cars by now... :: looks up :: i don't see no flying cars... i want my fusion powered flying car.:rolleyes:
[B]Modern nuclear reactor designs are ludicrously safe. The problem is that noone wants to build one because noone likes the idea of building more nuclear reactors. :) [/B][/QUOTE]
Majority of the Finnish people and government likes that idea and at least one additional reactor is going to be added to [url="http://www.helsinki-hs.net/news.asp?id=20031017IE4"]Olkiluoto plant[/url] and it should be in commercial operation by 2009.
[B]Normal fusion reaction which uses hydrogen's isotopes produces only energy and helium.
It doesn't produce any radioactive lements. (or isotopes) [/B][/QUOTE]
E.T, you do know what an Alpha particle is....right?
alpha - a telephone book stops it
beta - thick steel
Gamma - bloody thick lead
I guess we'll see in regards to fusion power.. as I said... I have no problems with fusion power in space... dang good idea...
the point is Big L's that huge centralised power stations are by thier very nature inefficient because you have by default, huge transmission losses. Big power stations should be for industry only and intensely localised to minimise such things.
There are no steps between catching the energy and using it (albeit we still store some in batteries for re-use) in a solar system. What's the real problem ? Hmmm ? Methinks you're in love with sexy high tech Fission, making love to a tired old solar cell just doesnt do it for you...:)
When we go looking for ways to tap a fission reactor my bet it will be heat=steam=turbine=electricity... and each step we'll be losing juice. Even assuming there will be buckets spare...all that invested energy/resources for what ? A boffins wet dream ?
Even heat these days is a pollutant...
sure people... power starships with fusion... I have zero problem with that... but power your electric cigar cutters with solar...
[B]The U.S. government should grow up. [/B][/QUOTE]
Maybe france should grow up.
Building it in Japan. makes sense from a cost/infrastructure sense.
"A more moderate climate" puhlease that is NOT a reason.
Essentialy what you have is two power blocks, and the US is coming down on the Asian side of afairs.. I hate to say it, but here in the left cost of the US we are WAY more tied to the asia pacific region then europe, and thats where our interests lie
Fusion power, in space or on Earth, fine by me. I think it's a must for space travel. We have to push on in our learning process, and to do all those wonderful things in space would be so much more costly than on the ground. Let's not forget the current status of our space shuttles and the like to get the mass up there...
I do agree that Solar power should be a much higher priority than it is or seems like it will be for decades to come.
Politicians = idiots
I see one day in the future when we have all pulled our collective heads out of our collective asses, where floating stations in orbit and elsewhere in the solar system have mastered both fusion and solar power.
I mean really, we have a natural fusion reactor at our disposal... and it can be an excellent and cheap catalyst for other ventures and systems we design.
:rolleyes: