[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Biggles [/i]
[B]That's a good point.
I just hope he doesn't end up like Milosevic. From what I've read, he has quite a nice life even though he's supposed to be on trial, and if he gets convicted, his "jail" will be very comfortable. [/B][/QUOTE]
Thats because nobody wanted to do anything about Milosevic except the US public whipped up by the US media. Frankly most of the european nations didnt give a damn, even though it was happening on their continent
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Tyvar [/i]
[B]
Actually do some reading of source material and not just leftist op ed pieces will ya? [/B][/QUOTE]
Being Leftist is so fun. Living in a left of center county is even funner:D
Biggles<font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Tyvar [/i]
[B]Thats because nobody wanted to do anything about Milosevic except the US public whipped up by the US media. Frankly most of the european nations didnt give a damn, even though it was happening on their continent [/B][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by JackN [/i]
[B]One less sick fuckhead to worry about...
;)
Merry Fuckin Christmas!
!!! [/B][/QUOTE]
Yes, one less right winged fuck head left in the world. and a few 1000 more to go, and set up:D heh, most of them are set up by the US to "fight Communism". And are always called "Freedom Fighters"
Biggles<font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
I hate to break it to you, but there arn't "a few 1000" countries or even little places calling themselves a country in the world.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Captain,Simmonds [/i]
[B]I was speaking metaphorically
Anyway. where are the fucking weapons of mass-disruction. And I still hate the US goverment.
Damn, You ppl dont know how much I hate the people on this planet. [/B][/QUOTE]
You know what...
I could give a flying fuck about Right or left bitch... or even those fucking WMD's.
It ain't the Masta Dubya even...
It's all those 1000's of people who are decaying in those mass graves that I give a shit about...
Striker, Sanfam, et all... Sorry, but I've had enough...
Self appointed mass murderers just don't get any sympathy in my book, and anyone wanting to use this as a reason to smack the USA needs a wipping too... Sorry if I offend anyone, but these could have easily been your familiy in your own countries.
I'm out....
Biggles<font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
I'm with Jack. The fucker was murdering by the thousands.
Same here. Seriously, I didn't think Iraq had a Nuclear program going, I thought they might, but I didn't see it as a threat.
Chemical weapons, well, he had them before, so I'd say there was a 99% chance he still did.
but really, what he did to his nations, killing thousands upon thousands, doing ANYTHING he wanted, killing anyone he wanted. THAT to me was reason enough to take him down.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Captain,Simmonds [/i]
[B]heh. I'm that type of person, who sees some one being beating in an allyway. Will jusy walk away and do nothing [/B][/QUOTE]
*sigh*
In which case, you better hope that if its you on the receving end Im the person walking by, cause Id at least call the cops, and thats if I KNEW if it was you, I mean if it was a stranger and potential a NICE person Id actually jump into the alley and make a disturbance ;)
Biggles<font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
Get in there and give them a nice big fright. Give them the impression you could make things very painful for them.
Well more inform them the cops are on the way and hope that scares em off, fights like that are ugly and nasty and way too dangerous. If it came to that point Id honestly try to get the hell away, hopefully lure them after me, but if it was too ugly Id draw the sig P239 I will soon be carrying ;)
A) Saddam is a bona fide and much proven arsehole... bullets are too good for him, a nice well publicised public lynching would be grand. Eye for an Eye, old testament style.
B) The US did back him, the US does want to secure IRAQI oil, they are far from pure in thier motivations, but they are doing some good, regardless of the sour taste in the mouth thier motives leave you with.
C) Simmonds... shut up, just shut up, or reattach your digestive tract the right way up...the shit coming out of your mouth is quite obviously annoying everyone, you'd do alot better if you actually based your rants on some facts...
D) and I hope you were being facetious about your alleyway comments
E) Tyvar... go watch Bowling for Colombine, much as I may like guns... solving disputes with guns puts a very finite ending on a very transigent situation
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by shadow boxer [/i]
[B]
E) Tyvar... go watch Bowling for Colombine, much as I may like guns... solving disputes with guns puts a very finite ending on a very transigent situation [/B][/QUOTE]
If you notice by my posts content I mentioned several other alternatives first before relying on leathal force.
The problem is there are mad dogs in this world, Ive met them, and I understand that sometimes leathal force IS the only way to respond. The best thing to do is call the cops, then yell at them that the cops have been called and hope they beat it. But if your truly trying to stop an assault with the viciousness of a mugging, alot of times the assaliant will dicate your response.
secondly I need to show you link witch severely deconstructs bowling for columbine, alot of stuff in there is pure propoganda and hogwash.
Frankly the level of lies, mistruths and manipulation of the facts makes Moore equivilent to gobells in my book, and I think the man deserves to be severely monitarily punished for his activities.
damn... and the turbine was just spinning down on my Rantomeister 3000...
:)
the point isnt Moores propoganda...
its the point he makes with his rather deceitful and unethical use of film...(thanks for the link, though to be honest I dont trust anyone who uses a camera, I know how easy it is to get a STILL camera to lie.. let alone one with movement and sound)
Americas gun culture is seriously fucked. The way the collective American psyche thinks about guns and the use therof is the point.
its a nasty self fueling cycle of fear and destructive mindsets. Even if we remove the gun from the picture... and use the equally lethally effective knife... same story
"I need a knife to protect me, my family and my community." What from ? "Other members of my community."
Granted there are some totally evil and unmitigatable persons who should be 'recycled' but the vast majority... don't deserve to die, dont deserve to end up riddled with lead.
it comes down to this...
"I'm not going to carry a gun in the street, to defend myself from anyone, I'm going to keep my guns for targets, for hunting, vermin control and 'whichever lord you believe in' forbid, for war, should that time come."
the issue here is the isolation and lack of social structures to reign in the problem children... nobody gives a fuck... or they hide behind 'free speech' and just generally ignore whats happening next door.
if I thought serious harm was befalling anyone as I travel through each day... I step in, I say something, I do something.
If everyone adopts the same approach...steps in early... then we have half a chance of getting to point where you end up with a person on crack toting a 9 milli...
by way of example... 4 year old in the supermarket... throwing a humungus tantrum over the lollies at the checkout...
I ask Mum.. "Can I help?"
she says "Yeah sure if you think you can get him to behave."
I get the toddlers attention and say...
"Hey, do you know how hard youre making things for your Mummy ? Do you want to give your Mum stuff when shes yelling at you ?"
...thinking music as the whining subsides...
~~~
you think gun crime and the above is unrelated ? well then theres half the problem... spoilt and undisciplined brats turn into hulking disobedient teenagers.. who turn into recalictrant adults... who have kids.. who become spoilt selfish brats who...
in short...
everyone has a responsiblilty to look after everyone else on this little rock...
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Captain,Simmonds [/i]
[B]Did'nt the US back Saddam, back in the late 1970s. did'nt teh US sell Saddam the weapons he used to kill those people.[/B][/QUOTE]
Yeah. And many bigger European countries also.
Because they wanted counterforce to Iran.
Saddam was a creation of these "civilized" western countries.
And those WMDs which Saddam used to kill rebelling citizens where made with equipment which was so to them "western" countries. (and Bush senior also allowed one of these massacres)
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Tyvar [/i]
[B] secondly I need to show you link witch severely deconstructs bowling for columbine, alot of stuff in there is pure propoganda and hogwash.
I feel I should mention that a bunch of those claims are actually false or innacurate, though a number are still correct. If I remember to, I'll find the counter link.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by shadow boxer [/i]
[B]damn... and the turbine was just spinning down on my Rantomeister 3000...
you think gun crime and the above is unrelated ? well then theres half the problem... spoilt and undisciplined brats turn into hulking disobedient teenagers.. who turn into recalictrant adults... who have kids.. who become spoilt selfish brats who...
in short...
everyone has a responsiblilty to look after everyone else on this little rock... [/B][/QUOTE]
Im sorry SB, your right, but we are in a situation thats nasty. For you in Aussie land its a hypotetical, problem is, Here its not. Yeah, you complain about my "paranoia" and say Im part of the problem, and your partialy right. So what do I do? the alternative in these circomstances is indeed death. Ive never been a personal victom of it, but I am linked to those who have. one girl who I went to high school with had her throat slashed and died. another two friends had to run out of a "stop and rob" as it got robbed.
You say you would step in and do something if you saw somebody getting harmed, so would I. But the problem is in an honest to go assualt, even with fists, its gonna get ugly, somebody is going to the hospital. I saw one guy ram another guys head into a street light once, (Croxis: this was at PSU, in front of the PCAT building) by the way.I didnt have to do anything because there is a parking structure kitty corner to where this happen, and it had an attendent in a booth who witnessed everything and he grabbed the phone to campus security immediately. Ironicly campus security wont respond to assualts with less then two and perferably three officers, because its two dangerous otherwise, about 8 years ago an officer responding to a simple bike theft had to be airlfited to a hospital because he was hit in the head with a pair of bolt cutters.
But here, you intervene, your are looking at assailents who want you down as fast as possible.. Its not a bar room brawl, its for real, and they are going to hurt you. Its not a role playing game, its not a damn fantasy. Knife, club, what have you, its real and odds are somebody is going to die or be in the ICU for a long, long time.
So how do you respond. Shoot if it was my well being, they can have my money, my phone my car, what ever, things are things. But if its an violent assault, rape, kidnapping and I have to intervene on the spot, Im sorry I will choose to use leathal force if its the only alternative, because its better I do that, then fail and have a innocent suffer. You cant play superman and throw some punches and expect the bad guys to fall down or run away, they are going to get back up, they are going to come back at you, and well in short.. your fucked.
I hate to say it, but the safest thing, for yourself, for the victom, hell in the case of guns versus knives even the assailant. is to "fill them full of lead" Did you know a higher percentage of stabbing victoms die versus shooting victoms? You make any other "heroic" and perceptivly "noble" choice, and people end up dead just as fast. you dont immediatly draw your weapon, you try to talk your way out of it, but it is often the choice you have to make, and it is even the best choice.
Your ideas are wonderfull, amazing and are the solution, they are what we should be doing.. but they fix the future. Not the present. The people in their 20's and older today are what they are, and I have to live with them.
You speak it like it ought to be, but its not. You attack our "gun culture" and thats not the problem either. The CHL/CCP crowd isnt trouble and it isnt the NRA people. They amazingly enough never seem to be hurting anyone, nor their children.
You see I can try to teach the children well, as I was taught. By a man who this was not accademic for, for a man who had been forced to kill, on the battlefield, and who had been forced to use violence off of it. I lived with him for 24 years, and call him father. He taught me how to shoot, and about violence. He also taught me compassion and caring and honor.
No, the problem isnt a society that glorifies violence, its one that glorifies selfishness and self indulgent. A warrior society based on self sacrifice and honor would not be destroying itself like ours is, examine what the Sikhs. No its the nihilistic attitudes which are daming us.
In short, I agree with the last paragraph completely, but disagree the rest of your statement.
In the words of JMS himself through Sheridan. My father taught me you dont start a fight, but you damn well finish it!.
And I will not deny myself a very usefull tool to achieving that end if it comes to it.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Sanfam [/i]
[B]I feel I should mention that a bunch of those claims are actually false or innacurate, though a number are still correct. If I remember to, I'll find the counter link. [/B][/QUOTE]
actually Ive seen the page you refer to, and if you give me a while I can dig up from a academic forum I visted a while ago another article which destroys the counter claims :D
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Tyvar [/i]
[B]actually Ive seen the page you refer to, and if you give me a while I can dig up from a academic forum I visted a while ago another article which destroys the counter claims :D [/B][/QUOTE]
And as mentioned over AIM, counter-counter statements were made, which were followed by counter-counter-counter arguments.
spooky shit... got this link in an email a few hours later
~~~~
Tyvar, where does the 'present' end and the future begin? By carrying a weapon you simply continue the cycle, no matter how noble your heart. Your actions will determine what happens. By carrying a gun for 'defence' you simply re-enforce the mindset, promote fear, promote the 'us and them' mentality.
Ghandi didn't have an Uzi...
and he faced off one of the largest militaries in the world...
As soon as you refuse to buy into it, you can change the world... slowly but surely. Ghandi was a smart bastard... he knew well that if he promoted a direct confrontation with the English he'd be choking the Ghanges with the dead...
You cannot respond to violence with more violence, you dont put out a fire with more fuel...
"I'm not going to carry a weapon, I'm not going to allow anyone to dictate how I conduct myself and how I relate to anyone."
~~~~
[I]yes I know more people die from knives than guns, this is irrelevant to the thrust of the arguement, (pun intended).[/I]
Comments
[B]That's a good point.
I just hope he doesn't end up like Milosevic. From what I've read, he has quite a nice life even though he's supposed to be on trial, and if he gets convicted, his "jail" will be very comfortable. [/B][/QUOTE]
Thats because nobody wanted to do anything about Milosevic except the US public whipped up by the US media. Frankly most of the european nations didnt give a damn, even though it was happening on their continent
[B]
Actually do some reading of source material and not just leftist op ed pieces will ya? [/B][/QUOTE]
Being Leftist is so fun. Living in a left of center county is even funner:D
[B]Thats because nobody wanted to do anything about Milosevic except the US public whipped up by the US media. Frankly most of the european nations didnt give a damn, even though it was happening on their continent [/B][/QUOTE]
Too much of the world is like that.
[B]One less sick fuckhead to worry about...
;)
Merry Fuckin Christmas!
!!! [/B][/QUOTE]
Yes, one less right winged fuck head left in the world. and a few 1000 more to go, and set up:D heh, most of them are set up by the US to "fight Communism". And are always called "Freedom Fighters"
Anyway. where are the fucking weapons of mass-disruction. And I still hate the US goverment.
Damn, You ppl dont know how much I hate the people on this planet.
[B]I was speaking metaphorically
Anyway. where are the fucking weapons of mass-disruction. And I still hate the US goverment.
Damn, You ppl dont know how much I hate the people on this planet. [/B][/QUOTE]
You know what...
I could give a flying fuck about Right or left bitch... or even those fucking WMD's.
It ain't the Masta Dubya even...
It's all those 1000's of people who are decaying in those mass graves that I give a shit about...
Striker, Sanfam, et all... Sorry, but I've had enough...
Self appointed mass murderers just don't get any sympathy in my book, and anyone wanting to use this as a reason to smack the USA needs a wipping too... Sorry if I offend anyone, but these could have easily been your familiy in your own countries.
I'm out....
Chemical weapons, well, he had them before, so I'd say there was a 99% chance he still did.
but really, what he did to his nations, killing thousands upon thousands, doing ANYTHING he wanted, killing anyone he wanted. THAT to me was reason enough to take him down.
I beleve in the Meaning. "The problems of others, is not our problem"
[B]I was speaking metaphorically
Anyway. where are the fucking weapons of mass-disruction. And I still hate the US goverment.
Damn, You ppl dont know how much I hate the people on this planet. [/B][/QUOTE] [IMG]http://members.lycos.co.uk/heshakesthesky/2236x_copy.jpg[/IMG]
[B]I beleve in the Meaning. "The problems of others, is not our problem" [/B][/QUOTE]
Apparently, you've never been mugged in a dark ally where bystanders, rather than helping, avert their eyes and continue with their business.
I haven't either, for that matter, but I would imagine it would alter your opinion somewhat.
[B]heh. I'm that type of person, who sees some one being beating in an allyway. Will jusy walk away and do nothing [/B][/QUOTE]
*sigh*
In which case, you better hope that if its you on the receving end Im the person walking by, cause Id at least call the cops, and thats if I KNEW if it was you, I mean if it was a stranger and potential a NICE person Id actually jump into the alley and make a disturbance ;)
[B]The next thing is to put the b*stard on trial.
Regards,
Morden [/B][/QUOTE]
Naaa...I think putting him on "Queer Eye" would be a better idea... ;)
[B]Naaa...I think putting him on "Queer Eye" would be a better idea... ;) [/B][/QUOTE]
damn, and when he dies of a brain anurism it would SO be plausibly deniable!! I LOVE IT!!
B) The US did back him, the US does want to secure IRAQI oil, they are far from pure in thier motivations, but they are doing some good, regardless of the sour taste in the mouth thier motives leave you with.
C) Simmonds... shut up, just shut up, or reattach your digestive tract the right way up...the shit coming out of your mouth is quite obviously annoying everyone, you'd do alot better if you actually based your rants on some facts...
D) and I hope you were being facetious about your alleyway comments
E) Tyvar... go watch Bowling for Colombine, much as I may like guns... solving disputes with guns puts a very finite ending on a very transigent situation
[B]
E) Tyvar... go watch Bowling for Colombine, much as I may like guns... solving disputes with guns puts a very finite ending on a very transigent situation [/B][/QUOTE]
If you notice by my posts content I mentioned several other alternatives first before relying on leathal force.
The problem is there are mad dogs in this world, Ive met them, and I understand that sometimes leathal force IS the only way to respond. The best thing to do is call the cops, then yell at them that the cops have been called and hope they beat it. But if your truly trying to stop an assault with the viciousness of a mugging, alot of times the assaliant will dicate your response.
secondly I need to show you link witch severely deconstructs bowling for columbine, alot of stuff in there is pure propoganda and hogwash.
[url]http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html[/url]
Frankly the level of lies, mistruths and manipulation of the facts makes Moore equivilent to gobells in my book, and I think the man deserves to be severely monitarily punished for his activities.
:)
the point isnt Moores propoganda...
its the point he makes with his rather deceitful and unethical use of film...(thanks for the link, though to be honest I dont trust anyone who uses a camera, I know how easy it is to get a STILL camera to lie.. let alone one with movement and sound)
Americas gun culture is seriously fucked. The way the collective American psyche thinks about guns and the use therof is the point.
its a nasty self fueling cycle of fear and destructive mindsets. Even if we remove the gun from the picture... and use the equally lethally effective knife... same story
"I need a knife to protect me, my family and my community." What from ? "Other members of my community."
Granted there are some totally evil and unmitigatable persons who should be 'recycled' but the vast majority... don't deserve to die, dont deserve to end up riddled with lead.
it comes down to this...
"I'm not going to carry a gun in the street, to defend myself from anyone, I'm going to keep my guns for targets, for hunting, vermin control and 'whichever lord you believe in' forbid, for war, should that time come."
the issue here is the isolation and lack of social structures to reign in the problem children... nobody gives a fuck... or they hide behind 'free speech' and just generally ignore whats happening next door.
if I thought serious harm was befalling anyone as I travel through each day... I step in, I say something, I do something.
If everyone adopts the same approach...steps in early... then we have half a chance of getting to point where you end up with a person on crack toting a 9 milli...
by way of example... 4 year old in the supermarket... throwing a humungus tantrum over the lollies at the checkout...
I ask Mum.. "Can I help?"
she says "Yeah sure if you think you can get him to behave."
I get the toddlers attention and say...
"Hey, do you know how hard youre making things for your Mummy ? Do you want to give your Mum stuff when shes yelling at you ?"
...thinking music as the whining subsides...
~~~
you think gun crime and the above is unrelated ? well then theres half the problem... spoilt and undisciplined brats turn into hulking disobedient teenagers.. who turn into recalictrant adults... who have kids.. who become spoilt selfish brats who...
in short...
everyone has a responsiblilty to look after everyone else on this little rock...
[B]Did'nt the US back Saddam, back in the late 1970s. did'nt teh US sell Saddam the weapons he used to kill those people.[/B][/QUOTE]
Yeah. And many bigger European countries also.
Because they wanted counterforce to Iran.
Saddam was a creation of these "civilized" western countries.
And those WMDs which Saddam used to kill rebelling citizens where made with equipment which was so to them "western" countries. (and Bush senior also allowed one of these massacres)
[B] secondly I need to show you link witch severely deconstructs bowling for columbine, alot of stuff in there is pure propoganda and hogwash.
[url]http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html[/url][/B][/QUOTE]
I feel I should mention that a bunch of those claims are actually false or innacurate, though a number are still correct. If I remember to, I'll find the counter link.
[B]damn... and the turbine was just spinning down on my Rantomeister 3000...
you think gun crime and the above is unrelated ? well then theres half the problem... spoilt and undisciplined brats turn into hulking disobedient teenagers.. who turn into recalictrant adults... who have kids.. who become spoilt selfish brats who...
in short...
everyone has a responsiblilty to look after everyone else on this little rock... [/B][/QUOTE]
Im sorry SB, your right, but we are in a situation thats nasty. For you in Aussie land its a hypotetical, problem is, Here its not. Yeah, you complain about my "paranoia" and say Im part of the problem, and your partialy right. So what do I do? the alternative in these circomstances is indeed death. Ive never been a personal victom of it, but I am linked to those who have. one girl who I went to high school with had her throat slashed and died. another two friends had to run out of a "stop and rob" as it got robbed.
You say you would step in and do something if you saw somebody getting harmed, so would I. But the problem is in an honest to go assualt, even with fists, its gonna get ugly, somebody is going to the hospital. I saw one guy ram another guys head into a street light once, (Croxis: this was at PSU, in front of the PCAT building) by the way.I didnt have to do anything because there is a parking structure kitty corner to where this happen, and it had an attendent in a booth who witnessed everything and he grabbed the phone to campus security immediately. Ironicly campus security wont respond to assualts with less then two and perferably three officers, because its two dangerous otherwise, about 8 years ago an officer responding to a simple bike theft had to be airlfited to a hospital because he was hit in the head with a pair of bolt cutters.
But here, you intervene, your are looking at assailents who want you down as fast as possible.. Its not a bar room brawl, its for real, and they are going to hurt you. Its not a role playing game, its not a damn fantasy. Knife, club, what have you, its real and odds are somebody is going to die or be in the ICU for a long, long time.
So how do you respond. Shoot if it was my well being, they can have my money, my phone my car, what ever, things are things. But if its an violent assault, rape, kidnapping and I have to intervene on the spot, Im sorry I will choose to use leathal force if its the only alternative, because its better I do that, then fail and have a innocent suffer. You cant play superman and throw some punches and expect the bad guys to fall down or run away, they are going to get back up, they are going to come back at you, and well in short.. your fucked.
I hate to say it, but the safest thing, for yourself, for the victom, hell in the case of guns versus knives even the assailant. is to "fill them full of lead" Did you know a higher percentage of stabbing victoms die versus shooting victoms? You make any other "heroic" and perceptivly "noble" choice, and people end up dead just as fast. you dont immediatly draw your weapon, you try to talk your way out of it, but it is often the choice you have to make, and it is even the best choice.
Your ideas are wonderfull, amazing and are the solution, they are what we should be doing.. but they fix the future. Not the present. The people in their 20's and older today are what they are, and I have to live with them.
You speak it like it ought to be, but its not. You attack our "gun culture" and thats not the problem either. The CHL/CCP crowd isnt trouble and it isnt the NRA people. They amazingly enough never seem to be hurting anyone, nor their children.
You see I can try to teach the children well, as I was taught. By a man who this was not accademic for, for a man who had been forced to kill, on the battlefield, and who had been forced to use violence off of it. I lived with him for 24 years, and call him father. He taught me how to shoot, and about violence. He also taught me compassion and caring and honor.
No, the problem isnt a society that glorifies violence, its one that glorifies selfishness and self indulgent. A warrior society based on self sacrifice and honor would not be destroying itself like ours is, examine what the Sikhs. No its the nihilistic attitudes which are daming us.
In short, I agree with the last paragraph completely, but disagree the rest of your statement.
In the words of JMS himself through Sheridan. My father taught me you dont start a fight, but you damn well finish it!.
And I will not deny myself a very usefull tool to achieving that end if it comes to it.
[B]I feel I should mention that a bunch of those claims are actually false or innacurate, though a number are still correct. If I remember to, I'll find the counter link. [/B][/QUOTE]
actually Ive seen the page you refer to, and if you give me a while I can dig up from a academic forum I visted a while ago another article which destroys the counter claims :D
[B]actually Ive seen the page you refer to, and if you give me a while I can dig up from a academic forum I visted a while ago another article which destroys the counter claims :D [/B][/QUOTE]
And as mentioned over AIM, counter-counter statements were made, which were followed by counter-counter-counter arguments.
spooky shit... got this link in an email a few hours later
~~~~
Tyvar, where does the 'present' end and the future begin? By carrying a weapon you simply continue the cycle, no matter how noble your heart. Your actions will determine what happens. By carrying a gun for 'defence' you simply re-enforce the mindset, promote fear, promote the 'us and them' mentality.
Ghandi didn't have an Uzi...
and he faced off one of the largest militaries in the world...
As soon as you refuse to buy into it, you can change the world... slowly but surely. Ghandi was a smart bastard... he knew well that if he promoted a direct confrontation with the English he'd be choking the Ghanges with the dead...
You cannot respond to violence with more violence, you dont put out a fire with more fuel...
"I'm not going to carry a weapon, I'm not going to allow anyone to dictate how I conduct myself and how I relate to anyone."
~~~~
[I]yes I know more people die from knives than guns, this is irrelevant to the thrust of the arguement, (pun intended).[/I]
Damn... you're both making extraordinarily good points. I'm impressed!