[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Morden279 [/i]
[B]However, I can also see why as the last major communist power way they'd want to go it alone, maybe they've got something to prove to the world?
[/B][/QUOTE]
They are always trying to prove something to the world. However, they are [b]far[/b] from communist these days. It's true that the party is still dominant, however they are just figureheads who wave red flags and have the name. To avoid a bloody overthrow by the poverty striken masses they have pulled back a great deal from communist ideas towards socialism. It's one of the reasons why they are finnaly reducing the number of people who live on $1-2 purchasing power parity dollars a day. The relaxing of trade restricions and red tape for domestic business on thier part has also helped spur growth ~ some might argue at the 'expense' of 'overpaid' union labor in the United States and Europe but that's what competition is all about.
What you might say is that this is without a doubt a [b]nationalist[/b] venture. The fact that they have not released a launch date untill now has people speculating that they didn't want to be embarased by delays. Another curious thing is how they they are not releasing the names of those involved so, in theory, they can cover up any accident. Par for the course when it comes to thier government, from the SARS epidemic to editing Hillary Clinton's book - it's not a very trustworth government IMO.
I think it's great they are going to space,** however the cost is high. They could have done more with the money to create a positive business atmosphere or put the money into launching more satelites which has been a profitable venture for them and has resulted in capital inflows from Europe. What would you pick - Space and national pride or feeding some of the poverty and famine stricken in the rural areas? :(
**unless this is going to lead to a claim the moon/mars as your own ordeal. I'm proud/glad the US has not gone over the edge on that one - I'm not so sure China will resist the temptation.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Konrad [/i]
[B]They are always trying to prove something to the world. However, they are [b]far[/b] from communist these days. It's true that the party is still dominant, however they are just figureheads who wave red flags and have the name. To avoid a bloody overthrow by the poverty striken masses they have pulled back a great deal from communist ideas towards socialism. It's one of the reasons why they are finnaly reducing the number of people who live on $1-2 purchasing power parity dollars a day. The relaxing of trade restricions and red tape for domestic business on thier part has also helped spur growth ~ some might argue at the 'expense' of 'overpaid' union labor in the United States and Europe but that's what competition is all about.
What you might say is that this is without a doubt a [b]nationalist[/b] venture. The fact that they have not released a launch date untill now has people speculating that they didn't want to be embarased by delays. [/B][/QUOTE]
It's ironic I know, that the Chinese have become the revisionists. I suppose it was inevitable considering the dominance of capitalism in the world today. They have always had the ability to work as a part of the world economy, having vast amounts of cheap labour to build goods for the west. The capitalist ethic has always been to spend little, and make much. ;)
As for "poverty-stricken", I know that some parts of China are a bit "backward", ie. fairly low tech in the rural areas, but is the domestic situation really that bad?
Definately, the poltical spectrum from right to left has always been in a horseshoe shape , not a straight line; the two extremes of communism and fascism being far closer together than either side would like to admit. ;)
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Morden279 [/i]
[B]As for "poverty-stricken", I know that some parts of China are a bit "backward", ie. fairly low tech in the rural areas, but is the domestic situation really that bad? [/B][/QUOTE]
From The World Development Report in 2002 table 2 pp. 234-235:
1998 Figures for China
18.5% of the population lives on less than $1ppp per day.
53.7% of the population lives on less than $2ppp per day.
ppp means Purchasing Power Parity - that means you have to consider what you can buy in the United States with one dollar.
The problem used to be worse - From 1987 to 1998 the number of people on less than $1 per day dramaticaly declined. This can be attributed to international business starting to soak up the huge unemployment problem.
Even without going into the HDI (human development Index - duh!) and the HPI (Human Poverty Index - less known) which take more into account than just income I think you'll agree the situation has improved but is certainly grave.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Morden279 [/i]
[B]I didn't even know China HAD a space programme. However, like Vertigo I fully support their efforts; it'd be a major boost to China's economy as well.
Regards,
Morden [/B][/QUOTE]
It could also start another space race. This means mega funding for NASA, which is a VERY good thing.
Biggles<font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Tyvar [/i]
[B]Being a scholor of chinese political trends, and such, Im apprehensive about such moves, actualy, Ive read recent stuff by PLA commanders (typicly generals) that could imply the chinese plan on making territorial claims, exclusive territorial claims to places they land on.
Frankly that idea right there is scary and I think the Space command and NASA need a major boost, cause the winner holds the high ground, especialy in this game.
And Im an astute enough student of history and politics to know I do NOT want China as the hegemon. [/B][/QUOTE]
See, that's the part that has worried me for quite some time. China has pretty much said they would like to make territorial claims in space. While I like the idea of a little competition, I think the idea of a space race to claim territory is very very bad.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Konrad [/i]
[B]1998 Figures for China
18.5% of the population lives on less than $1ppp per day.
53.7% of the population lives on less than $2ppp per day.
ppp means Purchasing Power Parity - that means you have to consider what you can buy in the United States with one dollar.[/B][/QUOTE]
Does this take into account currency value and exchange? I forget what currency China is currently using, but nation's with high value tender like Britain's Pound-Sterling can buy a lot more with £1 in a poorer nation than at home.
If the figures are in US Dollars, maybe one single high-value Dollar a day can go a long way in China?
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Biggles [/i]
[B]See, that's the part that has worried me for quite some time. China has pretty much said they would like to make territorial claims in space. While I like the idea of a little competition, I think the idea of a space race to claim territory is very very bad.[/B][/QUOTE]
Haven't we worked out some kind of treaty which prevents individual nation-states staking territorial claims outside the earth such as on the moon or any other local inhabitable bodies? If we haven't then a lot of work needs to be done before one of us gets to Mars!
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Morden279 [/i]
[B]Does this take into account currency value and exchange? I forget what currency China is currently using, but nation's with high value tender like Britain's Pound-Sterling can buy a lot more with £1 in a poorer nation than at home.
If the figures are in US Dollars, maybe one single high-value Dollar a day can go a long way in China?
[/B][/QUOTE]
Chinas current currency is I kid you not the "Ren min bi" (bi= equals bee sound" it roughly translates as "The peoples currency"
It has a exchange rate of 8 to 1, and dollars are not exactly suppost to be accepted in stores.
As for the actual average perchasing power of people in China, Im not sure, Ive only got acedotal evidince because of all the chinese nationals and immigrants I talk to, but purchasing power seems to be higher then reports suggest.
[QUOTE][B]
Haven't we worked out some kind of treaty which prevents individual nation-states staking territorial claims outside the earth such as on the moon or any other local inhabitable bodies? If we haven't then a lot of work needs to be done before one of us gets to Mars!
[/B][/QUOTE]
China is not a party to any such agreements and so thusly is not bound by them.
And even if they were, the dirty little secret, is there is only one serious enforcement mechanism in international law, and thats war, all other lesser measures are nothing but rhetoric and serve little good Im afraid.
Random China Fact
10% of the people in China live below the poverty line
and 12.7%of the U.S. population live below the poverty line.
and my backing is.
[url]http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ch.html[/url]
[url]http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/us.html[/url]
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Morden279 [/i]
[B]Does this take into account currency value and exchange? [/B][/QUOTE]
I'm going to do this as simply as I can:
Let's say I put you in the United States and gave you $2 to live on for that day. You go out and buy what ever you want in the US with those $2 food shelter clothing etc... You now have a basket of goods. 53% of China's population is in the EXACT same boat as you are or worse. 53% of China's population can not even buy each day the same basket of goods IN CHINA with thier own income as you just did in the US.
PPP is a way of showing the rest of the world how bad it is in other places.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Captain Simmonds [/i]
[B]Random China Fact
10% of the people in China live below the poverty line
and 12.7%of the U.S. population live below the poverty line.
and my backing is.
[url]http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications...ok/geos/ch.html[/url]
[url]http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications...ok/geos/us.html[/url][/B][/QUOTE]
[b]Captain Simmonds[/b] - Please look at the 'definitions' section on poverty by your statistics on the cia factbook pages you linked. You'll find that the definition of poverty varies [b]GREATLY[/b] from nation to nation. Your compairison of poverty rates across nations is worthless. So the point you were implying is worthless. If you're going to post stats know what your posting. It will not be so embarasing for you in the future. :rolleyes:
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Konrad [/i]
[B]Let's say I put you in the United States and gave you $2 to live on for that day. You go out and buy what ever you want in the US with those $2 food shelter clothing etc... You now have a basket of goods. 53% of China's population is in the EXACT same boat as you are or worse. 53% of China's population can not even buy each day the same basket of goods IN CHINA with thier own income as you just did in the US.
PPP is a way of showing the rest of the world how bad it is in other places. [/B][/QUOTE]
Thanks for clearing that up Croxis, I understand now. The statistics are are quite startling, I agree. Personally, I don't know HOW such a number of Chinese [b]survive[/b] on such a low income. Is there something we're overlooking?
Regards,
Morden
Biggles<font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
A large number of them don't.
As for the treaty about not claiming territory in space, as Tyvar said, China isn't a part of that treaty. The only way to stop them laying claim to large chunks of the moon, Mars, or even Earth orbit would be a war, either in space, on Earth, or both.
The US should pull out of Iraq and spend the 80 plus billion bux they're spending on the war towards getting our collective human arse into space, properly.
Only problem with that is the oil reserves... and the US addiction to hydrocarbons.
I dont think Bush et al have the foresight to get back and permanently to the Moon or get to Mars before the Chinese do.
The Chinese are famous for being racist, elitist snobs and I have no doubt they'll stick thier flag in the moondust and claim it...unless someone beats them to it. Hell... they dont even respect international patents, let alone anything else.
Chinas still in the grip of its population explosion, they need somewhere to ship the billions of citizens they have... another humungus Red Army to conquer a new frontier...
I wish the ship that touches down next on the moon is all painted blue and white...The UN needs to be there to stop all the children/nations squabbling.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by shadow boxer [/i]
[B]I wish the ship that touches down next on the moon is all painted blue and white... [/B][/QUOTE]
Yes, FINLAND!!! :D
ShadowDancerWhen I say, "Why aye, gadgie," in my heart I say, "Och aye, laddie."London, UK
Aside: Hey all! Missed me? Just started uni, and having a blast, well i will when i finally get my pc back!
Anyway, back to the topic
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by shadow boxer [/i]
[B]The US should pull out of Iraq and spend the 80 plus billion bux they're spending on the war towards getting our collective human arse into space, properly.
Only problem with that is the oil reserves... and the US addiction to hydrocarbons.
I dont think Bush et al have the foresight to get back and permanently to the Moon or get to Mars before the Chinese do.
The Chinese are famous for being racist, elitist snobs and I have no doubt they'll stick thier flag in the moondust and claim it...unless someone beats them to it. Hell... they dont even respect international patents, let alone anything else.
Chinas still in the grip of its population explosion, they need somewhere to ship the billions of citizens they have... another humungus Red Army to conquer a new frontier...
I wish the ship that touches down next on the moon is all painted blue and white...The UN needs to be there to stop all the children/nations squabbling. [/B][/QUOTE]
Unfortunatly I agree with SB. I think it would be a really bad thing to let the Chinese get their hands(or feet) on the moon as i dont see them being too willing to share.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by shadow boxer [/i]
[B]The US should pull out of Iraq and spend the 80 plus billion bux they're spending on the war towards getting our collective human arse into space, properly.
I wish the ship that touches down next on the moon is all painted blue and white...The UN needs to be there to stop all the children/nations squabbling. [/B][/QUOTE]
I agree mate, as long as there's still this massive division between east and west, we're staying on this planet indefinately. Sorry if I'm being facticious, but "Earth Alliance", anyone?
Definately, although the UN needs to be a far stronger organization than it is now. I'm certainly not "anti-war" when it comes to Iraq, but America's position towards the UN over the war showed just how much of a glass jaw it had. Everyone needs to fall in line when it comes to the future of the UN, including the US.
The United States space program died when neal armstrongs said "One small step for a man, one giant leap for man kind," in stead of, "I claim this moon as a territory of the Unites States of America."
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Zoltan [/i]
[B]Don't you mean SPACE WAR? or how about... STAR WARS?!?!? lol [/B][/QUOTE]
That reminds me, I thought Bush was committed to resurrecting the Star Wars programme. Last time I heard of this was pre September 11th and War on Terror, has the whole project been put on hold or what?
If the flight goes by the book, NASA may hopefully gain more funding in the near future. The current financial status is somewhat alarming due to that recent shuttle crash and other problems. [/QUOTE]
Well, wouldn`t we all want to hear Bush or the one who wins the next US elections say: [i]"We choose to go to Mars. We choose to go to Mars in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win."[/i]
Firstly on chinese living in poverty, yeah, some do, but I dont think its as high as the reports indicate. Mainly because alot of people are getting money from other sources that they are not reporting. Frankly I think alot of the economic activity in China is "grey market" hell alot may even be flat out "black". And that kind of stuff never makes it into the reports.
I dont know, Im going to go to school next week and ask some serious questions, all my TA's are from china and as are some of my classmates.
Shit I have one person asking if I know any clothing buyers, because a cousin or something is involved with a clothing factory and is capable of cranking out clothes, and wouldnt mind breaking into the US market. of course I have a sneaking suspicion were talking gray market clothing here, fake namebrand stuff, or produced by the same factory but "unauthorised" production.
China is a strange place. Im going maaaybe next year but more likely the year after next.
2ndly
America in space. Ive seen some things from Avaition week and Space technology, which suggest the Bush administration is doing something about it, but doing it in a way which firmly takes chinese programs into account. NASA's budget isnt getting many increases lately, but the old Space command, or what ever its called now, has been getting alot more money. Also there seems to have been a bush directive to restart, under Air force auspices, project "PROMETHEUS" (its cool it needs capital letters) which of course was the project to create nuclear powered deep space vessels, ostensibly for a mars expidition.
If china succesfully makes the manned launch, and then starts agressivly on its lunar program, I do expect Bush and Rummsfeld to respond.
Frankly Bush and Rummsfeld have been pushing the military to go even more high tech, championing things like power armor reaserch, high energy weapons reaserch.
As for Star Wars, the administration is conutning the high energy weapons reaserch, and of course champinoning the kenetic kill vehicle developments. Morden, the US government is building a launch site in Alaska which will have about a 100 missle based Kenetic Kill vehicles which can intercept targets in orbit. this is the first phase of BMD, alot of other systems are in development still, hell DARPA is still tinkering with the detonation X-ray laser idea, infact I gather it went quiet for a while, and has recently been brought back out.. makes you wonder why eh?
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Tyvar [/i]
[B]Being a scholor of chinese political trends, and such, Im apprehensive about such moves, actualy, Ive read recent stuff by PLA commanders (typicly generals) that could imply the chinese plan on making territorial claims, exclusive territorial claims to places they land on.
[/B][/QUOTE]
I thought some guy in California all ready layed claim to the moon and all planets outside of earth back in 1980...
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by shadow boxer [/i]
[B]
The UN needs to be there to stop all the children/nations squabbling. [/B][/QUOTE]
Does'nt the US Defie the UNs Wishes too?
Anyway, The world needs a International Space program.
And the planet and moon in this system belong to the people of earth, not anyone country or pirvate enterprise, I think its sick how some companys think the can sell land on the moon.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Freejack [/i]
[B]I thought some guy in California all ready layed claim to the moon and all planets outside of earth back in 1980...
[url]http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/business/moon_sale_000915.html[/url][/B][/QUOTE]
That's right. At the time there was a possibility for an individual to claim them as his own property because the international agreements prevented only nations, tribes and corporations in doing so.
Today that guy sells little pieces of the Moon's surface to any jerk who wants to buy. Especially celebrities are interested in such vanity...
Comments
[B]However, I can also see why as the last major communist power way they'd want to go it alone, maybe they've got something to prove to the world?
[/B][/QUOTE]
They are always trying to prove something to the world. However, they are [b]far[/b] from communist these days. It's true that the party is still dominant, however they are just figureheads who wave red flags and have the name. To avoid a bloody overthrow by the poverty striken masses they have pulled back a great deal from communist ideas towards socialism. It's one of the reasons why they are finnaly reducing the number of people who live on $1-2 purchasing power parity dollars a day. The relaxing of trade restricions and red tape for domestic business on thier part has also helped spur growth ~ some might argue at the 'expense' of 'overpaid' union labor in the United States and Europe but that's what competition is all about.
What you might say is that this is without a doubt a [b]nationalist[/b] venture. The fact that they have not released a launch date untill now has people speculating that they didn't want to be embarased by delays. Another curious thing is how they they are not releasing the names of those involved so, in theory, they can cover up any accident. Par for the course when it comes to thier government, from the SARS epidemic to editing Hillary Clinton's book - it's not a very trustworth government IMO.
I think it's great they are going to space,** however the cost is high. They could have done more with the money to create a positive business atmosphere or put the money into launching more satelites which has been a profitable venture for them and has resulted in capital inflows from Europe. What would you pick - Space and national pride or feeding some of the poverty and famine stricken in the rural areas? :(
**unless this is going to lead to a claim the moon/mars as your own ordeal. I'm proud/glad the US has not gone over the edge on that one - I'm not so sure China will resist the temptation.
[B]They are always trying to prove something to the world. However, they are [b]far[/b] from communist these days. It's true that the party is still dominant, however they are just figureheads who wave red flags and have the name. To avoid a bloody overthrow by the poverty striken masses they have pulled back a great deal from communist ideas towards socialism. It's one of the reasons why they are finnaly reducing the number of people who live on $1-2 purchasing power parity dollars a day. The relaxing of trade restricions and red tape for domestic business on thier part has also helped spur growth ~ some might argue at the 'expense' of 'overpaid' union labor in the United States and Europe but that's what competition is all about.
What you might say is that this is without a doubt a [b]nationalist[/b] venture. The fact that they have not released a launch date untill now has people speculating that they didn't want to be embarased by delays. [/B][/QUOTE]
It's ironic I know, that the Chinese have become the revisionists. I suppose it was inevitable considering the dominance of capitalism in the world today. They have always had the ability to work as a part of the world economy, having vast amounts of cheap labour to build goods for the west. The capitalist ethic has always been to spend little, and make much. ;)
As for "poverty-stricken", I know that some parts of China are a bit "backward", ie. fairly low tech in the rural areas, but is the domestic situation really that bad?
Definately, the poltical spectrum from right to left has always been in a horseshoe shape , not a straight line; the two extremes of communism and fascism being far closer together than either side would like to admit. ;)
Regards,
Morden
[B]As for "poverty-stricken", I know that some parts of China are a bit "backward", ie. fairly low tech in the rural areas, but is the domestic situation really that bad? [/B][/QUOTE]
From The World Development Report in 2002 table 2 pp. 234-235:
1998 Figures for China
18.5% of the population lives on less than $1ppp per day.
53.7% of the population lives on less than $2ppp per day.
ppp means Purchasing Power Parity - that means you have to consider what you can buy in the United States with one dollar.
The problem used to be worse - From 1987 to 1998 the number of people on less than $1 per day dramaticaly declined. This can be attributed to international business starting to soak up the huge unemployment problem.
Even without going into the HDI (human development Index - duh!) and the HPI (Human Poverty Index - less known) which take more into account than just income I think you'll agree the situation has improved but is certainly grave.
[B]I didn't even know China HAD a space programme. However, like Vertigo I fully support their efforts; it'd be a major boost to China's economy as well.
Regards,
Morden [/B][/QUOTE]
It could also start another space race. This means mega funding for NASA, which is a VERY good thing.
[url]http://www.space.com/news/china_launch_031008.html[/url]
[B]Being a scholor of chinese political trends, and such, Im apprehensive about such moves, actualy, Ive read recent stuff by PLA commanders (typicly generals) that could imply the chinese plan on making territorial claims, exclusive territorial claims to places they land on.
Frankly that idea right there is scary and I think the Space command and NASA need a major boost, cause the winner holds the high ground, especialy in this game.
And Im an astute enough student of history and politics to know I do NOT want China as the hegemon. [/B][/QUOTE]
See, that's the part that has worried me for quite some time. China has pretty much said they would like to make territorial claims in space. While I like the idea of a little competition, I think the idea of a space race to claim territory is very very bad.
[B]1998 Figures for China
18.5% of the population lives on less than $1ppp per day.
53.7% of the population lives on less than $2ppp per day.
ppp means Purchasing Power Parity - that means you have to consider what you can buy in the United States with one dollar.[/B][/QUOTE]
Does this take into account currency value and exchange? I forget what currency China is currently using, but nation's with high value tender like Britain's Pound-Sterling can buy a lot more with £1 in a poorer nation than at home.
If the figures are in US Dollars, maybe one single high-value Dollar a day can go a long way in China?
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Biggles [/i]
[B]See, that's the part that has worried me for quite some time. China has pretty much said they would like to make territorial claims in space. While I like the idea of a little competition, I think the idea of a space race to claim territory is very very bad.[/B][/QUOTE]
Haven't we worked out some kind of treaty which prevents individual nation-states staking territorial claims outside the earth such as on the moon or any other local inhabitable bodies? If we haven't then a lot of work needs to be done before one of us gets to Mars!
Regards,
Morden
[B]Does this take into account currency value and exchange? I forget what currency China is currently using, but nation's with high value tender like Britain's Pound-Sterling can buy a lot more with £1 in a poorer nation than at home.
If the figures are in US Dollars, maybe one single high-value Dollar a day can go a long way in China?
[/B][/QUOTE]
Chinas current currency is I kid you not the "Ren min bi" (bi= equals bee sound" it roughly translates as "The peoples currency"
It has a exchange rate of 8 to 1, and dollars are not exactly suppost to be accepted in stores.
As for the actual average perchasing power of people in China, Im not sure, Ive only got acedotal evidince because of all the chinese nationals and immigrants I talk to, but purchasing power seems to be higher then reports suggest.
[QUOTE][B]
Haven't we worked out some kind of treaty which prevents individual nation-states staking territorial claims outside the earth such as on the moon or any other local inhabitable bodies? If we haven't then a lot of work needs to be done before one of us gets to Mars!
[/B][/QUOTE]
China is not a party to any such agreements and so thusly is not bound by them.
And even if they were, the dirty little secret, is there is only one serious enforcement mechanism in international law, and thats war, all other lesser measures are nothing but rhetoric and serve little good Im afraid.
10% of the people in China live below the poverty line
and 12.7%of the U.S. population live below the poverty line.
and my backing is.
[url]http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ch.html[/url]
[url]http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/us.html[/url]
[B]Does this take into account currency value and exchange? [/B][/QUOTE]
I'm going to do this as simply as I can:
Let's say I put you in the United States and gave you $2 to live on for that day. You go out and buy what ever you want in the US with those $2 food shelter clothing etc... You now have a basket of goods. 53% of China's population is in the EXACT same boat as you are or worse. 53% of China's population can not even buy each day the same basket of goods IN CHINA with thier own income as you just did in the US.
PPP is a way of showing the rest of the world how bad it is in other places.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Captain Simmonds [/i]
[B]Random China Fact
10% of the people in China live below the poverty line
and 12.7%of the U.S. population live below the poverty line.
and my backing is.
[url]http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications...ok/geos/ch.html[/url]
[url]http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications...ok/geos/us.html[/url][/B][/QUOTE]
[b]Captain Simmonds[/b] - Please look at the 'definitions' section on poverty by your statistics on the cia factbook pages you linked. You'll find that the definition of poverty varies [b]GREATLY[/b] from nation to nation. Your compairison of poverty rates across nations is worthless. So the point you were implying is worthless. If you're going to post stats know what your posting. It will not be so embarasing for you in the future. :rolleyes:
[B]Let's say I put you in the United States and gave you $2 to live on for that day. You go out and buy what ever you want in the US with those $2 food shelter clothing etc... You now have a basket of goods. 53% of China's population is in the EXACT same boat as you are or worse. 53% of China's population can not even buy each day the same basket of goods IN CHINA with thier own income as you just did in the US.
PPP is a way of showing the rest of the world how bad it is in other places. [/B][/QUOTE]
Thanks for clearing that up Croxis, I understand now. The statistics are are quite startling, I agree. Personally, I don't know HOW such a number of Chinese [b]survive[/b] on such a low income. Is there something we're overlooking?
Regards,
Morden
As for the treaty about not claiming territory in space, as Tyvar said, China isn't a part of that treaty. The only way to stop them laying claim to large chunks of the moon, Mars, or even Earth orbit would be a war, either in space, on Earth, or both.
Oh great! First SARS, now this. I wonder what kinda of viruses/weird exotic diseases they'll bring back with 'em.
heh... The things people DO just to be noticed.
-Zoltan
Only problem with that is the oil reserves... and the US addiction to hydrocarbons.
I dont think Bush et al have the foresight to get back and permanently to the Moon or get to Mars before the Chinese do.
The Chinese are famous for being racist, elitist snobs and I have no doubt they'll stick thier flag in the moondust and claim it...unless someone beats them to it. Hell... they dont even respect international patents, let alone anything else.
Chinas still in the grip of its population explosion, they need somewhere to ship the billions of citizens they have... another humungus Red Army to conquer a new frontier...
I wish the ship that touches down next on the moon is all painted blue and white...The UN needs to be there to stop all the children/nations squabbling.
[B]I wish the ship that touches down next on the moon is all painted blue and white... [/B][/QUOTE]
Yes, FINLAND!!! :D
Anyway, back to the topic
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by shadow boxer [/i]
[B]The US should pull out of Iraq and spend the 80 plus billion bux they're spending on the war towards getting our collective human arse into space, properly.
Only problem with that is the oil reserves... and the US addiction to hydrocarbons.
I dont think Bush et al have the foresight to get back and permanently to the Moon or get to Mars before the Chinese do.
The Chinese are famous for being racist, elitist snobs and I have no doubt they'll stick thier flag in the moondust and claim it...unless someone beats them to it. Hell... they dont even respect international patents, let alone anything else.
Chinas still in the grip of its population explosion, they need somewhere to ship the billions of citizens they have... another humungus Red Army to conquer a new frontier...
I wish the ship that touches down next on the moon is all painted blue and white...The UN needs to be there to stop all the children/nations squabbling. [/B][/QUOTE]
Unfortunatly I agree with SB. I think it would be a really bad thing to let the Chinese get their hands(or feet) on the moon as i dont see them being too willing to share.
Whaddya mean 'unfortunately' ? :D
well, i cant really be seen to be agreeing with u can i? i gotta think about my rep u know!?
[B]The US should pull out of Iraq and spend the 80 plus billion bux they're spending on the war towards getting our collective human arse into space, properly.
I wish the ship that touches down next on the moon is all painted blue and white...The UN needs to be there to stop all the children/nations squabbling. [/B][/QUOTE]
I agree mate, as long as there's still this massive division between east and west, we're staying on this planet indefinately. Sorry if I'm being facticious, but "Earth Alliance", anyone?
Definately, although the UN needs to be a far stronger organization than it is now. I'm certainly not "anti-war" when it comes to Iraq, but America's position towards the UN over the war showed just how much of a glass jaw it had. Everyone needs to fall in line when it comes to the future of the UN, including the US.
Regards,
Morden
I do not think Cina will make the same error.
[B] "I claim this moon as a territory of the Unites States of America."[/B][/QUOTE]
That sentence could have started World War III. :D
Regards,
Morden
Don't you mean SPACE WAR? or how about... STAR WARS?!?!? lol
:D
-Zoltan
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Zoltan [/i]
[B]Don't you mean SPACE WAR? or how about... STAR WARS?!?!? lol [/B][/QUOTE]
That reminds me, I thought Bush was committed to resurrecting the Star Wars programme. Last time I heard of this was pre September 11th and War on Terror, has the whole project been put on hold or what?
Regards,
Morden
If the flight goes by the book, NASA may hopefully gain more funding in the near future. The current financial status is somewhat alarming due to that recent shuttle crash and other problems. [/QUOTE]
Well, wouldn`t we all want to hear Bush or the one who wins the next US elections say: [i]"We choose to go to Mars. We choose to go to Mars in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win."[/i]
I dont know, Im going to go to school next week and ask some serious questions, all my TA's are from china and as are some of my classmates.
Shit I have one person asking if I know any clothing buyers, because a cousin or something is involved with a clothing factory and is capable of cranking out clothes, and wouldnt mind breaking into the US market. of course I have a sneaking suspicion were talking gray market clothing here, fake namebrand stuff, or produced by the same factory but "unauthorised" production.
China is a strange place. Im going maaaybe next year but more likely the year after next.
2ndly
America in space. Ive seen some things from Avaition week and Space technology, which suggest the Bush administration is doing something about it, but doing it in a way which firmly takes chinese programs into account. NASA's budget isnt getting many increases lately, but the old Space command, or what ever its called now, has been getting alot more money. Also there seems to have been a bush directive to restart, under Air force auspices, project "PROMETHEUS" (its cool it needs capital letters) which of course was the project to create nuclear powered deep space vessels, ostensibly for a mars expidition.
If china succesfully makes the manned launch, and then starts agressivly on its lunar program, I do expect Bush and Rummsfeld to respond.
Frankly Bush and Rummsfeld have been pushing the military to go even more high tech, championing things like power armor reaserch, high energy weapons reaserch.
As for Star Wars, the administration is conutning the high energy weapons reaserch, and of course champinoning the kenetic kill vehicle developments. Morden, the US government is building a launch site in Alaska which will have about a 100 missle based Kenetic Kill vehicles which can intercept targets in orbit. this is the first phase of BMD, alot of other systems are in development still, hell DARPA is still tinkering with the detonation X-ray laser idea, infact I gather it went quiet for a while, and has recently been brought back out.. makes you wonder why eh?
[B]Being a scholor of chinese political trends, and such, Im apprehensive about such moves, actualy, Ive read recent stuff by PLA commanders (typicly generals) that could imply the chinese plan on making territorial claims, exclusive territorial claims to places they land on.
[/B][/QUOTE]
I thought some guy in California all ready layed claim to the moon and all planets outside of earth back in 1980...
[url]http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/business/moon_sale_000915.html[/url]
Jake
[B]
The UN needs to be there to stop all the children/nations squabbling. [/B][/QUOTE]
Does'nt the US Defie the UNs Wishes too?
Anyway, The world needs a International Space program.
And the planet and moon in this system belong to the people of earth, not anyone country or pirvate enterprise, I think its sick how some companys think the can sell land on the moon.
Now outside out star system is differnt.
[B]I thought some guy in California all ready layed claim to the moon and all planets outside of earth back in 1980...
[url]http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/business/moon_sale_000915.html[/url][/B][/QUOTE]
That's right. At the time there was a possibility for an individual to claim them as his own property because the international agreements prevented only nations, tribes and corporations in doing so.
Today that guy sells little pieces of the Moon's surface to any jerk who wants to buy. Especially celebrities are interested in such vanity...