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T3!!! (No Spoilers)
Konrad
Ranger
in Zocalo v2.0
I just came back from a T3 early screening - It's damn good! I was so afraid it was going to be terrible. I'm proud to say it lives up to the originals and demands a T4 (real fans of the series knew T4 needed to happen anyway). The movie blows away 'reloaded' IMHO on the "I want to see it again" appeal.
Kristina Loken is smoking! I think I need to say that again - Kristina Loken is smoking!
The acting is better than in T2 by far. There is a story - yes it is campy/funny at times but that's sort of what Terminator is all about. If you don't snicker at all maybe you should re-evaluate your cynical perspective on life. It's just simple fun - no tricky BS just for the sake of being clever - but not a "bumb and dumberer" quality movie either for Joe Dumbass. The ending is a little haunting.
There is also plenty of action of course. One nice thing is it is real action not endless computer BS - no silly one thousand computer animated agent smith fight scenes - no silly music video mass orgies. It's all a good balance and blending of story - action and computer generation - live action.
Do not evaluate this movie by the trailers - they save some of the best stuff for in the movie. WOA!!!
I'll be seeing it again on opening night. GO ARNOLD!!!
(PS Careful taking the kids to this one! Duh!)
(PPS To those who don't like woman heroes and villains - Welcome to the 21st century)
Kristina Loken is smoking! I think I need to say that again - Kristina Loken is smoking!
The acting is better than in T2 by far. There is a story - yes it is campy/funny at times but that's sort of what Terminator is all about. If you don't snicker at all maybe you should re-evaluate your cynical perspective on life. It's just simple fun - no tricky BS just for the sake of being clever - but not a "bumb and dumberer" quality movie either for Joe Dumbass. The ending is a little haunting.
There is also plenty of action of course. One nice thing is it is real action not endless computer BS - no silly one thousand computer animated agent smith fight scenes - no silly music video mass orgies. It's all a good balance and blending of story - action and computer generation - live action.
Do not evaluate this movie by the trailers - they save some of the best stuff for in the movie. WOA!!!
I'll be seeing it again on opening night. GO ARNOLD!!!
(PS Careful taking the kids to this one! Duh!)
(PPS To those who don't like woman heroes and villains - Welcome to the 21st century)
Comments
I did, however, see and like U571. I can't remember if I saw breakdown...is that the one where Kurt is forced to dig his own grave next to what he thinks is his wife's? I forget. Probably will just rent it again.
My only concern is one that I have with many "new director sequels"...they aren't using the same composer for the score. No rip on the new composer, but Terminator's music is as much a part of the legend as Arnold and "I'll be back." That was my only criticism of JP3 as well. Just seemed a little off without Williams (yes, I could tell), but backfilling with his main theme helped allot.
Can't wait to see it.
-R.
[B]The thing is though on the UK side of the water the director won't go down too well as he did U571 which caused alot of outcry here. [/B][/QUOTE]
Why? Wat was the fuss about, mate?
-R.
While I havent seen the film myself, my good mate the rabid naval historian was blowing steam out his ears about the liberties taken by the writers.
[B]
That was my only criticism of JP3 as well. Just seemed a little off without Williams (yes, I could tell), but backfilling with his main theme helped allot.
[/B][/QUOTE]
I liked Don Davis' score for JP3. IMHO it was better, more fullfilling than the JP2 score...
[B While I havent seen the film myself... [/B][/QUOTE]
While I have to agree that the writers took a lot of liberties (though I don't think it was mentioned whether or not it was the first such machine "recovered" in the movie...), I liked it well enough for what it was.
Though, that's the line that I hear the most from a lot of the people who talk about the historical inaccuracies in the movie, than that bugs me just a little bit.
[B]they aren't using the same composer for the score. [/B][/QUOTE]
You will notice the lack of the traditional score - I'm sure because I did too.
[QUOTE]Can't wait to see it.[/B][/QUOTE]
Just keep in mind that it is a new director and you shouldn't expect the exact same feel as the traditional terminators - It's a good fun summer movie in my book standing alone.
Also some Terminator diehards might think there wasn't enough story - I thought it was simply a different style - before it went - story then action then back to story and then more action - this time it's more of a rolling story - where even during the action the story is progressing ~ sort of.
To the rest of you - STOP HYJACKING THREADS!!! :mad: SB go start a "yanks blowing smoke up their asses thread" somewhere else... Your postings have become one-dimensional.
T3 subject matter only from now on. :D :robot: :robot:
[B]While I have to agree that the writers took a lot of liberties (though I don't think it was mentioned whether or not it was the first such machine "recovered" in the movie...), I liked it well enough for what it was.
Though, that's the line that I hear the most from a lot of the people who talk about the historical inaccuracies in the movie, than that bugs me just a little bit. [/B][/QUOTE]
As far as I know, only one machine was evr recovered from a submarine. The British lost two good men getting it, who rushed through a sinking sub to get the machine out. It was definitely a turning point in the war. Personally, I think the writers took a few too many liberties.
My advice is to go into the theatre with realisitic expectations and you'll enjoy it.
[B]the problem was the story... it rewrote a rather significant part of WW2 history painting 'the Yanks' as being legends in thier own lunch boxes... which in this case is a load of bollocks... the British were the ones to get the enigma code machine and book from a U boat.
While I havent seen the film myself, my good mate the rabid naval historian was blowing steam out his ears about the liberties taken by the writers. [/B][/QUOTE]
Well, that is retarded, now, isn't it?
-R.
Well, I was "lucky" enough to get in to an advanced preview of the film last night at 8:00. I had high hopes.
I hate to say it, but I totally disagree with everything the director said the film would be like. He said story and characters over action.
Seemed like BS to me, based on what I saw.
I found the characters to be shallow. I really didn't care if any of them died (except Arnold's character).
For some reason, John Connor was a total wimp; he wasn't even nearly as scrappy as the kid at the end of the last film. He looked like a cracked-out junkie with a perpetual "why-the-$%@#-am-I-here?" look on his face.
The link between Connor and Susan(?) seemed far too two-dimensional to believe. Seemed like it was hacked together, rather than artistically composed. My bet is Sarah was supposed to be in this film, and the writers had an "o-sh**" moment when Linda Hamilton said, "ummm...no." I don't like how they wrote here out either, but Linda Hamilton gets kudos for taking a stand, in my book. Hard for someone who hasn't acted since the last film to turn a new role down.
The "Skynet" idea was cool, but hardly explained well enough. Computer peeps will probably like the distributed networking thing.
The best acting was from the woman playing the "Terminatrix."
And I cringed at each of the sad pun rip-offs from the earlier films. Arnold rips off a few of Sarah Connor's lines from the first film, which was kinda even more painful. You could tell as he was saying them that he was choking back a laugh.
The director also took Cameron's greatest message from T2 , "NO FATE", tossed it out the window, and replaced it with "you can't evade destiny." That was just stupid, because the "no fate but what you make" part about T2 was a central part of the Terminator mythos. No wonder Linda Hamilton wanted nothing to do with the film.
The best part of the movie was the Crane-truck chase, which I heard Arnold paid for himself when he learned it was going to be taken out of the film because it was "too expensive." I think that scene came a little too early, though.
In a nutshell, Terminator should have been left as a Cameron legacy. I'm left with a sick feeling that this was a "cash in" film in a summer full of sequels. It felt to me like one of those "action figure adventures" you made in the backyard with your friends when you were young. Characters were there, but the story, well, it was corny looking back on it.
I'm still trying to figure out how WB produced this film, as "The Terminator" is a Universal property (last 2 films). Weird.
My recommendation? Go see Ang Lee's "The Hulk", or save the $19 for you and your date's tickets and buy [b]T2: Extreme DVD[/b]. Much more fun, and a much better film. And on top of that, you get to learn why T2 had such an effect on you (they go over many of the key dramatic tools Cameron used, bot visual and pacing-wise, to make you "feel" emotions while you watched). It's one of the Best DVDs out there, IMO. You'll actually want to watch it through a few times with the text comments on.
I just hope [b]Conan 3[/b] doesn't suck :)
[b]note:[/b] ILM and Stan Winston's work in this film are [i]phenominal[/i], but, "effects does not a great film make." Ironically, that was what the T2 Extreme DVD showed with remarkable clarity.
-R.
PS-- Sorry Konrad--I liked [i]Reloaded[/i] ALLOT more. You have to see it twice to appreciate it fully. Kind of like the second Terminator film. Just to give you a glimpse of what I mean: look back on T2 and watch how the Terminator becomes more human, and Sarah becomes more machine....right down to the sunglasses. I mentioned that to someone last night, and they said "OMG! You're right! I never thought of it that way!"
[B]I liked Don Davis' score for JP3. IMHO it was better, more fullfilling than the JP2 score... [/B][/QUOTE]
Not slamming Don Davis at all...he's a great composer. It was just evident that the style changed.
I thought Joe Johnson (an OLD-TIME ILM-er) did a great job with his directoral debut. The film was paced right, had a good story, and he knew when/where/and what effects to use to enhance the action and, more importantly, dramatic pacing.
I wish Joe had done T3, actually.
-R.
[B]Not slamming Don Davis at all...he's a great composer. It was just evident that the style changed.
I thought Joe Johnson (an OLD-TIME ILM-er) did a great job with his directoral debut. The film was paced right, had a good story, and he knew when/where/and what effects to use to enhance the action and, more importantly, dramatic pacing.
I wish Joe had done T3, actually.
-R. [/B][/QUOTE]
It actually wasn't his Directorial debut. I think he had done Jumanji or some other films before.
I wish he'd do JP4, as i'm a bit afraid Spielberg will screw it up again... (why i don't write anything on topic: T3 hasn't come out here yet:-/)
-R.
Damn, I came out of the theater really enjoying it!
That chase scene was just abso-fuckin-lutely incredible!
Yes, there were a few lame lines, but the general acting and writing was pretty good for a movie along these lines. And Sarah's lack of presence was, IMHO, Resolved to more than satisfaction. I thought all of the characters were just so damn well built up.
And while action was basically used to move the movie along, I think the exposition was delivered just when it needed to be, and really helped build the characters.
But...without spoiling things, there were some really great moments in the movie, often without dialogue (or very little of it)
The thing that really got me, though, was that the CGI was just used at the right level. Everything worked.
Lots of great work by Don Davis did some great work. I couldn't help but notice a few subtle matrix cues sneaking into the action sequences, but otherwise, the music was just great. Never too strong, and always complementing what was onscreen. And the direction was wonderfully done.
So, that's nothing but praise for the movie, I guess. I should see it again (Although my popcorn and drink cost more than the frelling ticket, $11.50, and really pissed me off, but I'm a sucker for good popcorn, a drink, and candy so paid a grand total of $14.50. Next time, drink and candy will be purchased *outside* the theater.
Martin, the guy whom I mentioned as being the rabid historian knows more about naval history than alot of so called naval scholars, the guy has a naval history library which covers quite a large wall...
when he gets upset about historical innaccuracies, then he's about the most well credentialled person I can possibly think of.
What's so 'retarded' about relaying the opinion of a learned and qualified person on a particular subject ?
hmmm ?
If Mr Wozniak caned a new Apple product would you not relay his opinion of it simply because it wasnt yours ?
And Konrad... if you havent worked this out yet... basically every thread on this board gets hijacked... live with it or go somewhere much more anally retentive...
ok... anyone else want some ? :D
[B]As far as I know, only one machine was evr recovered from a submarine. The British lost two good men getting it, who rushed through a sinking sub to get the machine out. It was definitely a turning point in the war. Personally, I think the writers took a few too many liberties. [/B][/QUOTE]
I think a US crew also captured one later in the war.
I couldn't believe the ending of T3. I both was and wasn't expecting that if you know what I mean.
Only one working NAVAL enigma machine (there were seperate ones for air and land forces) was ever recovered in WW2, and IIRC it was recovered by the crew of HMS Bulldog, a destroyer acting as a convoy escort. The submarine was blown to the surface by the depth charges launched by the Bulldog and another ship, and the Captain thought it was sinking and so ordered the crew to abandon ship. However it didn't sink, and stayed afloat long enough for a boarding party from HMS Bulldog to board the sub and get a working engima machine, the code book and several other classified documents. It WAS one of the most important events in the war- it allowed us to route convoys armound submarine wolf packs and even send hunter groups against them. Though the enigma machine changed again later in the war with the addition of another wheel, it was cracked again by code breakers at Bletchly Park, England using the very first programmable computer, designed by a bloke that used to work as a postman ;)
Anyways, nobody died during this apart from several members of the U-Boat crew who drowned, including the Captain, who realising his mistake, tried to swim back. Big mistake in those waters.
The film however, I find infuriating. It's like say you've single handedly killed the enemy team in CS, or you've invented a fuel that doesn't create harmful emissions, and then someone else comes along shouting "I did it! I did it!" and trys to take all the credit.
Anyways, with that mamoth post, let talking on T3 recommence:
I havn't seen it. I live in England. Daaaaaagnammit.
[B]Rick.... bite me...[/B][/QUOTE]
You goofball trollup...I was AGREEING with you that it was lame, hence the "Well, that [i]is[/i] retarded, now, isn't it?"
I'm well aware that the Brits got the enigma machine; U571 was a rather forgettable movie, though, and I didn't remember that part of the film.
-R.
[B]This movie was actually *really* fun!
Damn, I came out of the theater really enjoying it![/B][/QUOTE]
Ah well... to each his own, mate. I really have a hard time with swallowing the director's chewing up of "no fate but what we make", and spitting it back in Cameron's face, but that may be just me.
I also watched T2 with full commentary on the night before, so I was insanely sensitive to the narrrative and visual mastery Cameron has.
I'm *not* saying that the action in the film wasn't great, and that it wasn't a good film in and of it's own, I'm just horribly dissappointed about the "no fate" thing. Tastes like Metachlorians to me. :)
Now, that being said, my prediction is that [b]Pirates of the Carribean[/b] will surprise everyone, and turn into the hit of the summer. I just saw a documentary on it, and I think the action, fights, and story are going to blow everyone away. Remember that Johnny Depp is insanely picky aboutthe roles he takes, in an art over reparation kind of way.
-R.
I grew up in my early years in Florida (Key West to be exact, before the gender changes occured there). My childhood was all about the days of the Pirates.
I'm so looking forward to seeing that movie and reliving a little of my childhood, if only for a couple hours...
;)
Yo Ho! Yo Ho! A pirates life for me! :D
[B]Tastes like Metachlorians to me. :)[/B][/QUOTE]
That part of the movie never happened.
[B]
Now, that being said, my prediction is that [b]Pirates of the Carribean[/b] will surprise everyone, and turn into the hit of the summer.
-R. [/B][/QUOTE]
Suprisingly I had the same thought too... OK, own up, who are you and what have you done with my real Doppleganger?
[B]That movie never happened. [/B][/QUOTE]
Fixed.
Absolutly LOVED it.
Only thing that bothered me was John Conner being a wimp. He was such a tough kid in the last one...
but, I WILL give the story two thumbs up. Sure, we was a wimp, but the begining kinda gave us a reason for that... (Don't like it, but eh)
everything else ROCKED.
see sanfams post, the man knows what he says.
As of yet, best movie of the summer!
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Biggles [/i]
[B]As far as I know, only one machine was evr recovered from a submarine. The British lost two good men getting it, who rushed through a sinking sub to get the machine out. It was definitely a turning point in the war. Personally, I think the writers took a few too many liberties. [/B][/QUOTE]
Actually, there were two more captured on the U-505.
[url]http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq91-1.htm[/url]
[url]http://images.library.uiuc.edu/projects/DCHC/meta/intermediate_view.asp?ID=2030430152[/url]
"After a quick search proved that the U-boat was completely deserted, the U.S. crew rapidly gathered up charts, code books, technical publications, and two Enigma decoding machines, disconnected demolition charges, and closed scuttling valves to stop the boat’s sinking. The capture of the codebooks from the U-505 enabled American cryptanalysts to break the special map coordinate code in enciphered German messages and determine more precise locations for U-boat operating areas. The capture also allowed the Allies to resume real-time decoding of German submarine radio messages."
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Rick [/i]
[B]For some reason, John Connor was a total wimp; he wasn't even nearly as scrappy as the kid at the end of the last film. He looked like a cracked-out junkie with a perpetual "why-the-$%@#-am-I-here?" look on his face.[/b][/quote]
The reason he was so strung out was because his mother had raised him and trained him for his entire life for a moment that never came (judgement day). He'd spent his life preparing for a nuclear war that would vault him into the position of leadership, and the day came and passed without incident. After that, he really had no direction in his life.
I actually enjoyed T3. It was a bit short, but I gotta say I loved the ending. I didn't expect that at all. They took what was being set up as a clichéd plot and turned it on its ear in the last few minutes.
As for the "No Fate" thing, I think that idea is still there. But the problem is changing your destiny isn't a simple thing. It seems that by the end of the film, John realizes that all this time, the whole battle to save humanity has been waged with missing information (namely the girl's father).
Kinda like trying to decipher prophecy before it's fulfilled.