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Custom Buda5 star chart
LogicSequence
Elite Ranger
Indie
Project Lead - Buda 5
Posts: 898
Registered: Dec 1999
posted 06-04-2003 05:04 PM
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Lately I've been experimenting with GrandpaTrout's geography tools they are using in creation of the Epic mod. While these are somewhat clumsy, they are easy enough to use after some practice. What this means is that we could have a custom Buda5 star chart for the campaign!
If anyone is interested, I'd like to see some suggestions on system names and ideas on how the map would look like. Most of the map would just cover unexplored systems of the Rim, but if we start the campaign at Babylon 5 then there'd be Epsilon Eridani and Z'Ha'Dum at least. I'm not sure if Z'Ha'Dum should actually be displayed on the map. Perhaps it should be titled NGC4532, or something astronomical like that... Also, the series was never very clear on the distances involved. If Explorer ships travel for 6 months then you'd think the Rim is pretty far - at least 1-2 months in hyperspace, yet the Whitestar didn't seem to have any problems reaching Z'Ha'Dum in a reasonable amount of time...
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-Indie
Buda5
IP: Logged
The Claw
Member
Posts: 259
Registered: Nov 2001
posted 06-04-2003 10:04 PM
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I think it's explorer ships spend 6 months out on the rim.. at least that's the way I interpreted it! And lets not forget the whitestar is very fast... definatly faster than a explorer ship
On the subject of the starmap, I think there is one that has been used around, showing the space of the major races and major worlds- I'll see if I can dig it up, it might be a very useful framework which can be filled in. I think they gave Z'Ha'Dum a name in the series as well, will also try to dig that up
May I suggest also we make hyperspace a really big nebula that's kind of a "hub" from which you can reach all the other systems? Just a thought
------------------
"I love the British for three reasons. One, we always beat you at rugby. Two, your wives are always welcoming and hospitable. Three, you fought like devils to save us" Old french bloke in my uncles pub.
"I do be the pirate of this here bus! Arrrrrrr!" An overactive me. Just before me and the other guys doing aircraft maintenance began singing "I'm dreaming of a white christmas"
IP: Logged
Warlord
Member
Posts: 324
Registered: Nov 2001
posted 06-04-2003 10:14 PM
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I have one Babylon 5 map which I got from The Babylon Project forums about a year ago. It's year 2258 so it probably don't have all systems. HERE (1,3mb).
EDIT: I think I can't find Z'Ha'Dum there.
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Buda5
[This message has been edited by Warlord (edited 06-04-2003).]
IP: Logged
LogicSequence
Member
Posts: 458
Registered: Feb 2002
posted 06-05-2003 08:49 AM
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MAP
ok here we go, LOL... i made this map in paint, so don't go buggin about it, but this is how i've always thought of the b5 universe... and teh rim especially (note i'm sure the planet placements aren't exactly right, but u get the general idea)... the arrows indicate the direction of expansion... color key is pretty self explainatory... purple brushed area is what lorien meant by beyond the rim.. and where the first ones left for... literally where the galaxy stops... but the area where the arrows are is still the "rim" just the border from the explored part of the galaxy to the unexplored.
i think what captain mainored (a distant star) meant by 6 months was how long they were at the rim... i.e. setting up jumpgates and exploring and charting... not 6 months to get there. lets face it, have u ever heard anyone in b5 say something was a "month long" journey by hyperspace??? i've heard a week... maybe 2 or 3.... but thats it...
i don't think even in the b5 universe the ENTIRE milkyway galaxy has been explored... i mean obviously it hasn't... probably only a small fraction of it has. thats why everything is still relatively close by hyperspace. now i'm sure the firstones have explored it all tho...
here are the human star names for the major alien systems: (some i read somewhere but forgot where....)
Minbari system: Chi Draconis
Narn system: 82 Eridani
centauri system: Centauris
Earth: (DUH) Sol
Vorlon sytem: Vorlon
Shadow System: Ha'Dum
since we've never seen/heard of any other planet in the ha'dum system, i'm assuming z'ha'dum is the only one there... anyways it's not the shadows ORIGIONAL homeworld anyways.... in fact i doubt vorlon is the vorlon's origional homeworld either. we now that in B5 sol goes nova in cerca 1,002,262 AD. 1 million years after 2262... seeing as sol is 6 billion (???) years old, lets assume that that is around a good average star "life span" at least in B5 universe... and even if it's not, it still gives us an idea for the following... if the shadows acheived hyperspace travel in 100million BC, and they're star was around the same age as ours at that point, then we should assume it went nova long be4 the events of B5... same for the vorlons... tho considerably younger.
Some figures: (LY= Light Year)
Proxima, or Alpha Centauri C ("Proxima Centauri"), 4.226 LY from Earth.
Vega, or Alpha Lyrae, is 25.167 LY from Earth.
Epsilon Eridani is 10.67 light-years from the earth
Centauri Prime is 75 light-years from Babylon 5.
Narn is about 12.2 light-years from Babylon 5
Centauri homeworld is "nearly twice as far from B5 as is Earth", and Centauri Prime is 75 LY from Babylon 5.Babylon 5 is around 40 LY from Earth(contridicting actual fact mentioned in the above figure), and Narn is 10 LY from Babylon 5.
Logic
---------------
When the long night comes, return to the end of the beginning.
[This message has been edited by LogicSequence (edited 06-05-2003).]
[This message has been edited by LogicSequence (edited 06-05-2003).]
IP: Logged
Roi_Danton
Member
Posts: 338
Registered: Mar 2002
posted 06-05-2003 03:00 PM
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quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by LogicSequence:
i don't think even in the b5 universe the ENTIRE milkyway galaxy has been explored... i mean obviously it hasn't... probably only a small fraction of it has. thats why everything is still relatively close by hyperspace. now i'm sure the firstones have explored it all tho...
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NEVER, even the FO can't have explored our whole galaxy. It's far far too big, even with the possibilities of their techniques.
I can't know what you've learned in astronomy and physics at school. What still left in my memory is, that the Milkyway has over 100 Billion stars (2*10^11) and a very energetic core with a extrem high density of the stars (the distances between themselves are only some lightmonths).
Length: 30000pc = 97860ly
Height: 5000pc = 16000ly
Apart from such theoretics - like you said the local B5 nations are only a few lightyears away from each other, this is a very very very very [..] small part of the local galaxy referring to the volume of the Milkyway (too small in my opionion for such many nations, but that's not the topic here).
We could use some more real Solar Systems like
Sirius 8,9 (distance from SOL in ly)
Procyon 11,6
Atair 16,5
and for a further story in the explorer campaign with a new Alien race we could use for example the famous M13 star cluster.
So I also think the travel time in Babylon5 Hyperspace only takes some weeks, not month.
What Lorien speaks of ... the "end of the space" I never would include in our Star Chart ... b/c that very little part of the Bab5 universe in comparison to the local galaxy (milkyway) - and I don't consider the quadrillions of the other galaxies like the milkyway - is soooo small and worthlessly that such "thing" only would be funny for people who knows more about SciFi than StarTrek, StarWars and Bab5.
So a Star Chart like the TBP people did it would be good. Only distances should be included ... and maybe a hyperphysical phenomenon for the contact with the Aliens should be included later ... maybe the player could travel thousands of ly's with this phenomenon in a short time (I know, old idea, but good to create a varietally story).
IP: Logged
Indie
Project Lead - Buda 5
Posts: 898
Registered: Dec 1999
posted 06-05-2003 08:02 PM
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I don't think we even need to bother creating a map of the entire B5 universe. Our map can focus on the exploration area and at the edge of the map we place Epsilon Eridani.
The hard part is coming up with hundreds of names for planets and systems.
btw, it could be that "going beyond the rim" means leaving this universe entirely.
------------------
-Indie
Buda5
IP: Logged
Warlord
Member
Posts: 324
Registered: Nov 2001
posted 06-06-2003 07:35 PM
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I didn't even think about us creating whole universe map. I just posted that map to show what kind of know B5 universe is like (in the beginning of show). We don't actually even need it if we go to the rim. Who wants to create new star system names??
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Buda5
IP: Logged
Roi_Danton
Member
Posts: 338
Registered: Mar 2002
posted 06-06-2003 08:42 PM
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Okay, let's bound the chart to the rim.
I would prefer real Star Names. For example the brightest stars (Brightness more than 4.3mag) from the Orion, Canis, Taurus and Gemini (PS: has nothing to do with that Gemini Sector from WC Privateer ):
Star System (Spectrum (star class))
Orion:
Rigel (B8), Beteigeuze (M2), Bellatrix (B2), Alnilam (B0), Alnitak (O9.5), Saiph (B0)
Canis:
Sirius (A1), Adhara (B2), Wezea (F8), Aludra (B5), Procyon (F5), Gomeisa (B8)
Taurus:
Aldebaran (K5), Al Nath (B7), Alcyone (B7), Alheka (B2)
some more: Ain, Atlas, Hyadum Primus, Electra, Maia, Merope, Taygete, Auriga
Gemini:
Pollux (K0), Castor (A0), Alhena (A0), Tejat (M3), Mebsuta (G8), Propus (M3), Alzirr (F5)
Nebulas (NGC | M class):
M42 (1976 | M42), Orion
Crab (1952 | M1), Taurus
Pleiades (1432/5 | M 45), Taurus
Eskimonebula (2392), Gemini
If we use them - I have detailed information about the position of each star.
[This message has been edited by Roi_Danton (edited 06-06-2003).]
Project Lead - Buda 5
Posts: 898
Registered: Dec 1999
posted 06-04-2003 05:04 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lately I've been experimenting with GrandpaTrout's geography tools they are using in creation of the Epic mod. While these are somewhat clumsy, they are easy enough to use after some practice. What this means is that we could have a custom Buda5 star chart for the campaign!
If anyone is interested, I'd like to see some suggestions on system names and ideas on how the map would look like. Most of the map would just cover unexplored systems of the Rim, but if we start the campaign at Babylon 5 then there'd be Epsilon Eridani and Z'Ha'Dum at least. I'm not sure if Z'Ha'Dum should actually be displayed on the map. Perhaps it should be titled NGC4532, or something astronomical like that... Also, the series was never very clear on the distances involved. If Explorer ships travel for 6 months then you'd think the Rim is pretty far - at least 1-2 months in hyperspace, yet the Whitestar didn't seem to have any problems reaching Z'Ha'Dum in a reasonable amount of time...
------------------
-Indie
Buda5
IP: Logged
The Claw
Member
Posts: 259
Registered: Nov 2001
posted 06-04-2003 10:04 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think it's explorer ships spend 6 months out on the rim.. at least that's the way I interpreted it! And lets not forget the whitestar is very fast... definatly faster than a explorer ship
On the subject of the starmap, I think there is one that has been used around, showing the space of the major races and major worlds- I'll see if I can dig it up, it might be a very useful framework which can be filled in. I think they gave Z'Ha'Dum a name in the series as well, will also try to dig that up
May I suggest also we make hyperspace a really big nebula that's kind of a "hub" from which you can reach all the other systems? Just a thought
------------------
"I love the British for three reasons. One, we always beat you at rugby. Two, your wives are always welcoming and hospitable. Three, you fought like devils to save us" Old french bloke in my uncles pub.
"I do be the pirate of this here bus! Arrrrrrr!" An overactive me. Just before me and the other guys doing aircraft maintenance began singing "I'm dreaming of a white christmas"
IP: Logged
Warlord
Member
Posts: 324
Registered: Nov 2001
posted 06-04-2003 10:14 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have one Babylon 5 map which I got from The Babylon Project forums about a year ago. It's year 2258 so it probably don't have all systems. HERE (1,3mb).
EDIT: I think I can't find Z'Ha'Dum there.
------------------
Buda5
[This message has been edited by Warlord (edited 06-04-2003).]
IP: Logged
LogicSequence
Member
Posts: 458
Registered: Feb 2002
posted 06-05-2003 08:49 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MAP
ok here we go, LOL... i made this map in paint, so don't go buggin about it, but this is how i've always thought of the b5 universe... and teh rim especially (note i'm sure the planet placements aren't exactly right, but u get the general idea)... the arrows indicate the direction of expansion... color key is pretty self explainatory... purple brushed area is what lorien meant by beyond the rim.. and where the first ones left for... literally where the galaxy stops... but the area where the arrows are is still the "rim" just the border from the explored part of the galaxy to the unexplored.
i think what captain mainored (a distant star) meant by 6 months was how long they were at the rim... i.e. setting up jumpgates and exploring and charting... not 6 months to get there. lets face it, have u ever heard anyone in b5 say something was a "month long" journey by hyperspace??? i've heard a week... maybe 2 or 3.... but thats it...
i don't think even in the b5 universe the ENTIRE milkyway galaxy has been explored... i mean obviously it hasn't... probably only a small fraction of it has. thats why everything is still relatively close by hyperspace. now i'm sure the firstones have explored it all tho...
here are the human star names for the major alien systems: (some i read somewhere but forgot where....)
Minbari system: Chi Draconis
Narn system: 82 Eridani
centauri system: Centauris
Earth: (DUH) Sol
Vorlon sytem: Vorlon
Shadow System: Ha'Dum
since we've never seen/heard of any other planet in the ha'dum system, i'm assuming z'ha'dum is the only one there... anyways it's not the shadows ORIGIONAL homeworld anyways.... in fact i doubt vorlon is the vorlon's origional homeworld either. we now that in B5 sol goes nova in cerca 1,002,262 AD. 1 million years after 2262... seeing as sol is 6 billion (???) years old, lets assume that that is around a good average star "life span" at least in B5 universe... and even if it's not, it still gives us an idea for the following... if the shadows acheived hyperspace travel in 100million BC, and they're star was around the same age as ours at that point, then we should assume it went nova long be4 the events of B5... same for the vorlons... tho considerably younger.
Some figures: (LY= Light Year)
Proxima, or Alpha Centauri C ("Proxima Centauri"), 4.226 LY from Earth.
Vega, or Alpha Lyrae, is 25.167 LY from Earth.
Epsilon Eridani is 10.67 light-years from the earth
Centauri Prime is 75 light-years from Babylon 5.
Narn is about 12.2 light-years from Babylon 5
Centauri homeworld is "nearly twice as far from B5 as is Earth", and Centauri Prime is 75 LY from Babylon 5.Babylon 5 is around 40 LY from Earth(contridicting actual fact mentioned in the above figure), and Narn is 10 LY from Babylon 5.
Logic
---------------
When the long night comes, return to the end of the beginning.
[This message has been edited by LogicSequence (edited 06-05-2003).]
[This message has been edited by LogicSequence (edited 06-05-2003).]
IP: Logged
Roi_Danton
Member
Posts: 338
Registered: Mar 2002
posted 06-05-2003 03:00 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by LogicSequence:
i don't think even in the b5 universe the ENTIRE milkyway galaxy has been explored... i mean obviously it hasn't... probably only a small fraction of it has. thats why everything is still relatively close by hyperspace. now i'm sure the firstones have explored it all tho...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NEVER, even the FO can't have explored our whole galaxy. It's far far too big, even with the possibilities of their techniques.
I can't know what you've learned in astronomy and physics at school. What still left in my memory is, that the Milkyway has over 100 Billion stars (2*10^11) and a very energetic core with a extrem high density of the stars (the distances between themselves are only some lightmonths).
Length: 30000pc = 97860ly
Height: 5000pc = 16000ly
Apart from such theoretics - like you said the local B5 nations are only a few lightyears away from each other, this is a very very very very [..] small part of the local galaxy referring to the volume of the Milkyway (too small in my opionion for such many nations, but that's not the topic here).
We could use some more real Solar Systems like
Sirius 8,9 (distance from SOL in ly)
Procyon 11,6
Atair 16,5
and for a further story in the explorer campaign with a new Alien race we could use for example the famous M13 star cluster.
So I also think the travel time in Babylon5 Hyperspace only takes some weeks, not month.
What Lorien speaks of ... the "end of the space" I never would include in our Star Chart ... b/c that very little part of the Bab5 universe in comparison to the local galaxy (milkyway) - and I don't consider the quadrillions of the other galaxies like the milkyway - is soooo small and worthlessly that such "thing" only would be funny for people who knows more about SciFi than StarTrek, StarWars and Bab5.
So a Star Chart like the TBP people did it would be good. Only distances should be included ... and maybe a hyperphysical phenomenon for the contact with the Aliens should be included later ... maybe the player could travel thousands of ly's with this phenomenon in a short time (I know, old idea, but good to create a varietally story).
IP: Logged
Indie
Project Lead - Buda 5
Posts: 898
Registered: Dec 1999
posted 06-05-2003 08:02 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think we even need to bother creating a map of the entire B5 universe. Our map can focus on the exploration area and at the edge of the map we place Epsilon Eridani.
The hard part is coming up with hundreds of names for planets and systems.
btw, it could be that "going beyond the rim" means leaving this universe entirely.
------------------
-Indie
Buda5
IP: Logged
Warlord
Member
Posts: 324
Registered: Nov 2001
posted 06-06-2003 07:35 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't even think about us creating whole universe map. I just posted that map to show what kind of know B5 universe is like (in the beginning of show). We don't actually even need it if we go to the rim. Who wants to create new star system names??
------------------
Buda5
IP: Logged
Roi_Danton
Member
Posts: 338
Registered: Mar 2002
posted 06-06-2003 08:42 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Okay, let's bound the chart to the rim.
I would prefer real Star Names. For example the brightest stars (Brightness more than 4.3mag) from the Orion, Canis, Taurus and Gemini (PS: has nothing to do with that Gemini Sector from WC Privateer ):
Star System (Spectrum (star class))
Orion:
Rigel (B8), Beteigeuze (M2), Bellatrix (B2), Alnilam (B0), Alnitak (O9.5), Saiph (B0)
Canis:
Sirius (A1), Adhara (B2), Wezea (F8), Aludra (B5), Procyon (F5), Gomeisa (B8)
Taurus:
Aldebaran (K5), Al Nath (B7), Alcyone (B7), Alheka (B2)
some more: Ain, Atlas, Hyadum Primus, Electra, Maia, Merope, Taygete, Auriga
Gemini:
Pollux (K0), Castor (A0), Alhena (A0), Tejat (M3), Mebsuta (G8), Propus (M3), Alzirr (F5)
Nebulas (NGC | M class):
M42 (1976 | M42), Orion
Crab (1952 | M1), Taurus
Pleiades (1432/5 | M 45), Taurus
Eskimonebula (2392), Gemini
If we use them - I have detailed information about the position of each star.
[This message has been edited by Roi_Danton (edited 06-06-2003).]
Comments
Indie, due to my mission plays close to the Babylon5 station could you create the system (at least the planet, the sun and the Jumpgate) where the station is located at?
Maybe closer to the sun than it's in the series (due to more impressive light effects from a sun ... like in my first (and defective) release of my mission in the X-Mas-Package).
Great! I'm looking foward to it!
[url]http://koti.welho.com/aluomara/[/url]
Its not usable without the geography generator program, but you can toy with it. Let me know if some parts of the interface don't make sense. There are no documentation or tooltips yet, but I'm working on it. It doesn't support multi-level parent objects (i.e. moon of a moon of a planet that orbits a sun) and I recommend having bodies orbit a star which is placed at the center.
Its a Visual Basic program, so you'll need to have vb5 runtimes installed: [url]http://www.karenware.com/powertools/runtimes.asp[/url]
If you have at some point installed a program that used them, chances are you already have them.
[B]where can we get the geography generator program? [/B][/QUOTE]
yes, I couldn't find it at the Epic site too and have no time to look through the whole INA board!
Yes, I could upload that as well, but you'd need to make a script to start a mission in that system. Or perhaps you can make it work in the normal game or the starcluster test...
:confused:
Anyways, the tool is still limited and lack load and pan functions so some things are difficult to do.
Usage:
[I]geog csvname.csv mapname.map[/I]