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Vorlons sighted in another system
shadow boxer
The Finger Painter & Master Ranter
in Babylon 5
gamasutra.com
Comments
I'll have to read that for incorporation into my engine. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
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[b][url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Required reading[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
Feedback appreciated, including argument, missed points, etc.
Thanks for posting, shadow boxer.
[This message has been edited by Randy (edited 09-21-2001).]
I've been interested in the story side of games ever since I got my Commodore 64.
In my opinion, one of the toughest hurdles when developing a story for an interactive medium is covering all the bases.
The more interactive the game, the harder it is to make sure that you've thought of everything the player might try.
I've played games that started out very compelling, but when I try to pursue a course of action that, to me, seems logical, only to find that I can't go through with it, it tends to rip me violently from the game world; it's like reading a book only to come upon a missing page.
My first real experience with interactive storytelling (albeit the most primitive version of such) was the "choose your own path" books I read when I was 7 or 8. The stories were by no means complicated, prompting you to turn to a certain page depending on which path you wanted to take in the story. We've come a long way since then, and as the level of interactivity increases, so does the complexity of the writing process.
Again, great article. I think we'll be seeing a lot more emphasis put on story when the "wow factor" of graphics starts to decline.
[This message has been edited by samuelk (edited 09-21-2001).]
I agree with Sam, that as graphics become more realistic, people will be less impressed by them, and the focus will revert to storytelling. It's all good when that happens.
Who knows, maybe one day we'll be purchasing Literary Accelerators for our PCs? [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
[b]randy, that idea has been done to some degree in wing commander universe[/b][/quote]
In a way, it has. But the Wing Commander games weren't extremely interactive. The production values were VERY high, and the missions did have different outcomes (as did the ending of some of the games). A very well-written series. But why stop there? The envelope needs to be pushed.
These smart NPC's are each connected to libraries of possible actions and things to say, which are divided into dramatic acts, like a five act play.
These smart NPC's live in environments that are also embedded with narrative content. The narrative content in the environments is also tied to libraries, which are divided into the five act dramatic structure.
It is The Sims, but much, much more - AND...
The player is not a god force manipulating from outside, but instead another player upon the stage. Like in B5:ITF, player actions have an impact on the way the sim evolves. The player’s relationship with NPC’s would also evolve, depending upon how the player treated them.
The dramatic challenge would be to create some characters that one could easily come to care about, and others one could come to hate - almost as if they were real. And then put those characters into danger. When this happens, the action has more impact than action for action's sake.
In the sim I visualize, NPC's can choose to talk to the player, instead of the player always making that choice. They have an "intent" or a goal to transfer information to the player, and will have varying degrees of willingness to continue, despite hardship.
This NPC's would also respond emotionally to the impact of events, and the emotional tally would impact "health", realized in the ability to act effectively.
[This message has been edited by Randy (edited 09-21-2001).]
In my Ideal game, NPCs would be, on some levels, indestiguishable from the player's character when viewed by an observer. In other words, watching an NPC would be just as interesting as watching the player.
NPC's could as you say, have access to information in a database.... but what they actually know (i.e., the pieces of info they actualy have access to) would depend on many factors (where (chronologically) the NPC is in the story, who the NPC has interacted with, etc.)
NPCs would posess AI senses (hearing, smell, taste, sight, touch) and would be conscious of their environment and aware of the importance of locations, objects and people as they relate to the story and the environment. For example, the ideal NPC would find it odd to see a friend driving someone else's car alone at night, and might choose to investigate.
Maybe I'm asking for too much. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
I imagine doing my part for characters who need my help, but who just happen to live on the other side of the glass from me. I "talk" to them. They "hear" me. We "converse".
Though I can't join them physically on the other side of the glass, my computer becomes an interactive device that can move around in this another realm, that I "happened to stumble across". The characters who are surprised to find me there have a problem, a big problem – and they’re the underdogs. They could really use my help. Since their quest is honorable and something that I can easily relate to, I decide to do what I can to help them.
[This message has been edited by Randy (edited 09-22-2001).]
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[b][url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Required reading[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
[img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/biggrin.gif[/img]
Great work on Gamasutra! [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
Still unsure how to respond to your e-mail response to my email...
[img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/wink.gif[/img]
Re: response to my response to your email about what we talked about before over tea as a result of the discussion earlier on, which was in response to several questions you brought up in response to my response -
wha...?
Actually, I don’t remember what this is about. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/biggrin.gif[/img]
Rather, this sounds like an step beyond what the developers of Anarchy Online were trying to create...
No one said it would be easy. As for AI...it's advancing every day. There are some AI projects in the works that blow away anything you've seen in the gaming industry (colleges and other institutions have some amazing AI projects that few know about).
Regarding story in games: There is a reason I paid close to $US100 to import [i]The Longest Journey[/i], which is still unavailable here.
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[b][url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Required reading[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
In what way did the voice acting seem wooden to you? The voice acting in TLJ has been praised by almost every review as being the best in years, and personally I think it is great. That's what you get when you hire professional actors. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
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[b][url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Required reading[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
Good voice performances take not only professional talent who understand the needs of voice acting (which is different from visual styles), but also good direction by someone who understands the context of dialogue, has made conscious choices about the subtext of dialogue, and knows how to suggest that subtext by helping the actor to use inflection, pace, volume and the others tools of voice.
There are also strictly mechanical tricks – like breaking up a long piece of dialogue in terms of rhythm in order to give the impression that the speaker is thinking/ considering as he/she goes along – or stutters and interruptions. As in CGI – believability is in the imperfections.
[This message has been edited by Randy (edited 09-23-2001).]
[b]Hell yeah!
In what way did the voice acting seem wooden to you? The voice acting in TLJ has been praised by almost every review as being the best in years, and personally I think it is great. That's what you get when you hire professional actors. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
[/b][/quote]
It was just very wooden. But the demo came out before the game was completely finished I think, so maybe the dialog was temporary or hadn't been polished. There wasn't much there, anyway.
thats a bit brief dont you think randy? [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
I'll contact them and see if that helps.
Thanks.
[url="http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId=5667/"]http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId=5667/[/url]
I rather enjoy being in a Stealth capacity though...
[img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/wink.gif[/img]
Randy: The voice acting was directed by Ragnar Tørnquist, the guy who wrote the entire game story. There is also a lot of those imperfections in there. Things like stuttering from fear or surprise, people thinking while talking, stopping in the middle of a sentence, then starting again as if they were going to say something else. The voice acting seems very real. It is easily the best I have heard in a game so far.
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[b][url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Required reading[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
the beauty lies in the imperfections... ( ok so I'm paraphrasing to suit my rant/point.
I am so damned tired of 'breathtaking graphics'. If I see one more perfectly shaded poly I'm going to brain someone with my 22lb Celtic battle axe, (yes I DO have one).
Scant few people put any effort into putting the 'noise' into the system. Us humans are so used to seeing the little chunks of chaos in our lives, the computer generated lack of any, is disturbing to the eye, perhaps only at a sub-concious level for some but is still very much there.
Everytime I draw, render, create I make great efforts to use 'hand skills' use the air brush myself rather than guassian blur a layer or two to create shadows. I often turn type into paths and play with it, alter a few vectors by hand. Depending on circumstance I don't even use a basic circle tool. I drop in my own four points and play with the handles myself. This gives you a circle only another warm and breathing entity will appreciate. Trust me, it's true. I've done a few little studies and discovered "hand drawn" elements attract all but the brain dead anal engineer types who want 'perfect' circles.
Alot of people eschew the 'barreness' of CD audio, that the old analogue 'tape hiss' gives music a warmth and believablility you dont get with a CD. I have a minidisc which I use for digital recordings and when I first recorded my voice I was shocked how clear it was, (and how bad my voice really was ;D ). It was a negative experience. It sounded like I'd crawled into an isolation clean room, almost disembodied my vocal cords.
So this 'signal-to-noise' ratio is I think the last real stumbling block to producing the indistiguishable pefect reality that everyone is obsessed with. ( Just personally, I don't care for 'photographic' realism, I'd much rather see some artistic stylistic elements, some things that smack of the craftsmans hand, but that's another barrow for another day.)
People need imperfection to believe that what they are sensing is 'real' and man.... that is such a sweet irony...perfection is imperfection... [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/biggrin.gif[/img]
Aki may have had 100,000 independently animated hairs on her head but I wonder how many split ends... [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/biggrin.gif[/img]
(and before you go stupid correcting me, yes she had acne and all sorts of so called human character elements but I think you see my point ).
The background count is king...
What you refer to is the "Dirty-Down" principle for realism.
It was required talent for working at Foundation Imaging. They did it well, even after much detail gets lost going to NTSC video.
I imagine the same points that Biggles brings up for audio, speech, etc makes for better realism as well.
With the advent of HDTV, studios will be harder pressed to produce realism in their graphics.
[img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]