Issues with your account? Bug us in the Discord!
Huge Chemical Weapons Plant Found
Rhett
(Not even a monkey)
in Zocalo v2.0
Well, it appears a 100 acre chemical weapons plant ahs been discovered in Iraq. Just as I predicted. Note that this is a town that inspectors had been to and reported no WMD at.
[url]http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,81935,00.html[/url]
This is the first I have heard of it (other places havent started talking about it yet).
EDIT: I felt this was important enough to warrent a new topic. Feel free to move this if you think I was wrong.
[url]http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,81935,00.html[/url]
This is the first I have heard of it (other places havent started talking about it yet).
EDIT: I felt this was important enough to warrent a new topic. Feel free to move this if you think I was wrong.
Comments
It's on Yahoo news too as well as the Jerusalem post.
Latest on CNN about the plant.
I have not posted on the subject in some time and my last post on it was in the spirit of hope rather than this endless bickering over futile maters by the close minded. So I'll finish by saying - I hope the resistance by the Baath Party members, desperate to hang onto their ability to the population, ends in the south soon so the US and UK can get aid to the people of Iraq.
I also hope POW's taken by either side are treated with the respect they deserve. It's a shame the days of the early WWI aviator are over, where if captured you were toasted by your adversary and sent on your way back across the front.
though I wouldnt put it past Saddam to make VX etc.
the real war will be in Bahgdad itself, the coasting across the dessert was just the drive from home to the ballfield where the real game actually begins.
some other news that wont have made it into the headlines...
an Iraqi tank commander got close to the support vehicles for the US armour pushing up from Kuwait. He did so by hiding in the 'tank graveyard' from the last gulf war. He was in a T-72, if there had been several instead of just one they could have halted the whole division by blowing up a few tanker trucks and a few Bradleys before the Abrams had a chance to turn tail and defend them. Unfortunately for the tank commander he lost his nerve and attacked the rear of the Abrams, they of course turned on him and when its 10 to 1 plus, you dont survive long. His gunner sucked too. He missed. A shame it wasnt a Russian tank crew. Things may have been decidely different. Even a well fought T-72 is frikkin deadly, especially to rear armour on a Challenger or Abrams and there is no contest between it and the modern Bradleys. The rest of course it would eat with gusto.
While I dont want to see anyone dead in this nasty little war, it would have been nice to see a little egg on the face of the rather arrogant US military. Big and high tech is one thing, cunning, wily and cheeky is another.
Atleast the commander in cheif has the right idea...
"No plan survives first contact with the enemy." and hes dead right...
If the Americans had come up against a well disciplined and experienced crew, there would have been havoc wreaked....
Luck is not something you should rely upon.
[B]Unfortunately for the tank commander he lost his nerve...
While I dont want to see anyone dead in this nasty little war, it would have been nice to see a little egg on the face of the rather arrogant US military. Big and high tech is one thing, cunning, wily and cheeky is another.
If the Americans had come up against a well disciplined and experienced crew, there would have been havoc wreaked....
Luck is not something you should rely upon. [/B][/QUOTE]
I suspect you are projecting some personal issues on the US military. Members of the US military are certainly not arrogant, and I have never known them to rely on luck. You have made some gross generalizations. Members of the US military are some of the most intelligent and caring people I've ever known.
Facing off against a battle hardened and clever enemy crew is never easy and has nothing to do with intelligence and loosing against said crew would not result in 'egg on the face'. I would not call tactics like taking off your uniform and waving white flags and then ambushing clever or cunning. It's cowardice and taking advantage of a military that is trying do to everything in its power to minimize civilian casualties and to a certain degree even military casualties at thier own risk.
"While I dont want to see anyone dead… …egg on the face of the rather arrogant US military." SB
I think your statement sums it all up and exposes you for what you are. My judgment may be clouded by having a personal tie to the US military but I doubt the first half of your statement. Why don’t have the guts to just come out and say it? I think I know where you stand deep in your heart. I see a dark void there.
How many of you are secretly out there hoping for a Vietnam quagmire or defeat for the US? No matter what your opinion that's just sick as it would only hurt the people of Iraq.
At any rate what did the Tank story have to do with the thread topic - other than it being a sad attempt to show your contempt? Just because of your comments I intend to stay an extra hour at the troop support rally - I dedicate that hour to you SB.
I know that the military are the defenders of my freedoms, the ones who give me the right to sit here and debate. I would not support sending the military into any conflict I would not fight in or die for myself. God Bless our troops.
[B]it would have been nice to see a little egg on the face of the rather arrogant US military.[/B][/QUOTE]
Having a problem with the US military is fine, but suggesting that you would like to see KIA's to prove your point is repugnant.
While you say that "I don't want to see any deaths", your later statement about the "egg on the face" goes against that and suggests quite the opposite.
Have respect for those on this forum who have family serving there.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Konrad [/i]
[B]Unfortunately, I suspect that even if the forces do it will not cause the ravenous anti conflict people to "change their minds." I suspect many, perhaps even some on this board, will start ranting about how it's a secret US plot spearheaded by "Shrub" himself to justify the war.
[/B][/QUOTE]
No kidding. Whether there's any truth to this or not, I doubt the antiwar camp will ever accept any high-profile egg on their faces.
As for the supposed chemical weapons plant: Whether it is or not, the really hard-line anti-war people will just say it's a made-up claim to try and justify the war. There's no convincing some people. They're like the we-didn't-land-on-the-moon people. They know what they believe and they will stick to it no matter what.
the keyword here is suspected. Know what that means kids?
[quote][b]It is not yet known what chemicals were being produced at the plant.[/b][/quote]
Right. Could be soap for all we know.
[quote][b]Members of the US military are certainly not arrogant, and I have never known them to rely on luck. You have made some gross generalizations. Members of the US military are some of the most intelligent and caring people I've ever known.[/b][/quote]
While doing military service, I often heard my officers say when they did UN service, they never wanted to serve under americans, cause they were crazy and unreliable. This was a thing they had in common with a friend of mine who did UN service. I am not trying to say everyone is like that, but they probably thought so for a reason.
[B]the keyword here is suspected. Know what that means kids?
[/B]
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, it means there is a temporary reprieve for the no proof people. We'll just have to see what develops.
[QUOTE]
While doing military service, I often heard my officers say when they did UN service, they never wanted to serve under americans, cause they were crazy and unreliable. This was a thing they had in common with a friend of mine who did UN service. I am not trying to say everyone is like that, but they probably thought so for a reason. [/B][/QUOTE]
This is relevant because....??? I'm sure American soldiers have some real intersting perspectives on other nation's militaries as well.
You realize that suspected goes for everything, right? We suspect we lost an apache helo. We suspected that the Iraqi's had POW's. We suspected Sadamm and his buddies were in the building. Damn well everything that is released is "suspected". However, alot of the time these suspected things turn out to be true.
If our soldiers are so bad to your UN buddies (as well as being "crazy and unreliable"), how come we have won damn near every war (with the exception of Vietnam- which you can blame on the fucking politicians, and the fact that we shouldnt have been there period)?
I'm sorry, but I will not stand here and not stick up for the military that is guaranteeing my liberty and freedom.
EDIT: Yes, I agree that it is very sad that when we do find large amounts of chemical weapons, some people will still not believe.
[url]http://www.datekdj.newsalert.com/bin/djstory?StoryId=CpN6q0aebqLqWmduWmJu[/url]
And I do not like it being implied that I am a conspiracy nut.
I call him "Shrub" because of my total lack of respect. I do not think he would be smart enough to mastermind any conspiracies.
The French have the right idea...
[url]http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/europe/03/17/offbeat.pretzels.reut/index.html[/url]
The mere act of creating the agents qualifies, when an individual can hand carry it to it's target without fear of his/her own death with it's release.
I venture to say in my opinion, that the simple existence of a chemical plant with the capability is suspect enough without the actual agents. Why else would the building(s) exist?
'Huge'[b] Suspected[/b] Chemical Weapons Plant Found in Iraq
ITS Suspected,
[B]This is relevant because....??? I'm sure American soldiers have some real intersting perspectives on other nation's militaries as well. [/B][/QUOTE]
I was replying on a statement.
And Im not defending Saddam, I dont think anyone here is. Im sick and tired of those that say we defend Saddam to downgrade our posts to pro Saddam bullshit. Grow up.
Besides, you didn't answer my question...:D :D :D
And the answer to your question is Yes. ;)
That was a joke, BTW. No harm intended. Never know with yu guys...
(Its should be Canada, Finland, Sewden, Switzerland, New Zealand and a few other Peaceful countrys)
[B] While doing military service, I often heard my officers say when they did UN service, they never wanted to serve under americans, cause they were crazy and unreliable. This was a thing they had in common with a friend of mine who did UN service. I am not trying to say everyone is like that, but they probably thought so for a reason. [/B][/QUOTE]
Who did they like doing UN Service Under:D
[QUOTE][I]Originally posted by Lennier [/I]
[B] This is relevant because....??? I'm sure American soldiers have some real intersting perspectives on other nation's militaries as well. [/b][/QUOTE]
Yes I could Picure what they would say, They Would Most likly say other countrys have a Crapy Military Compaired to Theirs.
[B]I am questioning the validity of the find because I am questioning Bush/Shrub's ways.
And the answer to your question is Yes. ;) [/B][/QUOTE]
The investigation teams are comprised of independant international journalists and (it was my understanding) that independant chemical specialists were accompanying the military forces hunting for WMD.
You can question thier ways all you want, but they've gone outta thier way to try and convince everyone and be as unbiased as possible.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by AnlaShok [/i]
[B][url]http://www.datekdj.newsalert.com/bin/djstory?StoryId=CpN6q0aebqLqWmduWmJu[/url]
And I do not like it being implied that I am a conspiracy nut.
I call him "Shrub" because of my total lack of respect. I do not think he would be smart enough to mastermind any conspiracies.
[/B][/QUOTE]
Well, After all not to long ago you were the one who said Bin Laden met with White House officials shortly before the 9-11 attacks. I then called you out on it asking for a source - you said it wasn't there anymore. So my suspicions are not unfounded. However I have let that go publicly until now. Conspiracy nut? I don't know. [Edit - This Paragraph was incorrect when first written it was Faylorn who made the comment not Anlashok.]
Now my question is through what site did you get to that first link in your post? It looks a little strange to me. I'm very cautious to trust internet sources as I've been duped by fake pages in the past. I'm not pointing fingers, I'm just not sure. Just like I'm not sure about this chemical plant to begin with - as seen in my first post. :)
I am very certain that e.g. inspection of US territory will reveil a lot of waepons of mass destruction featuring atomic warheads, may be chemical and biological weapons as well at least installations capable producing chemical and biological weaponry!
what about that?
now ppl will say that the Hussein regime can't be compared with the US what is in fact very true but doesn't harm the point that this monopol of military power and potential of ABC-warfare in connection with the turn away of the UN favouring lynch justice is indeed alarming.
war means people are dying hatred is growing and the seed of new conflicts is spread.
tell me one war that really solved a problem....
At any rate I know for a fact that there is this wonderful incinerator out here in the desert that is getting rid of chemical weapons the US has had as we speak. I'm glad Germany got rid of its Chemical weapons after 1946 - we are trying to reduce our stockpiles also. The process has been slowed down by environmentalists who are afraid there might be an accident in the destruction process. This to me shows we should try to learn from our mistakes and be certain to prevent the creation of any new lethal chemical weapons.
Even the German Government know we are trying to destroy those horrible weapons here at home - It's just a hard and slow job.
[url]http://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/www/en/aussenpolitik/friedenspolitik/abr_und_r/cwue_html[/url] Yes, we have facilities to create new weapons, but so does the German Government. I know you're not going to like it but it is my perspective that nuclear weapons in the hands of responsible nations like the US France and UK have saved more lives than have killed or risked. It's a shame we can't get rid of them too, but that day of stability has not come yet.
War never solves problems - sometimes however it is the lesser of two evils.