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It has begun
croxis
I am the walrus
in Zocalo v2.0
We are now at war. We are now at war.
Comments
I just wonder how many people has now died already. :(
- PJH
- PJH
Accidents can and will most likely happen in war. However, the U.S. does everything possible to make sure it doesn't happen.
Also, a lot of those "accidents" that Iraq report are false anyhow.
:(
[B]I am disgusted. [/B][/QUOTE]
Well, that does it! now I KNOW Bush was right. ;)
J/K
frankly, you don't have an argument against the war. if your so worried about the civilians, go read up on what Saddam et all have been doing to their subjects the past 20+ years. THAT is sickening. Chances are, there will be VERY few civilian deaths, those that die will be becuase Saddam has forced them into military instalations, etc as human sheilds, something Saddam has NO qualms about.
-The least possible number of lives lost for both sides.
-The least amount of damage to the beautiful city of Baghdad.
-A liberated Iraq with leaders elected by the people in the near future.
-That the Iraqi people open their arms to the liberators.
-That the liberators show the Iraqi people the respect they deserve.
-The support of the world in rebuilding and avoiding a humanitarian crisis.
-That extremists will see that in the long run this was good for the people and they will forget their animosity.
-A quick resolution.
[B]I don't really got a problem with USA attacking Iraq. My problem is that USA didn't give the UN's inspectors more time. To me it feels like all their work goes to waste! [/B][/QUOTE]
You mean 12 years wasn't enough time?
[B]I wonder Too, I Wonder how many "Accidents" have happened [/B][/QUOTE]
I've written up two replys to this so far, and deleted both because this implication is so insulting I couldn't continue. It disgusts me, and I don't trust myself to say any more.
[B]You mean 12 years wasn't enough time? [/B][/QUOTE]
Damn! I live to see the day the Samuelk and I agree!! hah hah!!!
:D
[B]You mean 12 years wasn't enough time? [/B][/QUOTE]
nope!!
[B]Well Iraq has fired some scuds into Kuwait, 2 were shot down by Patriots... nothing was hit apparently. [/B][/QUOTE]
Iraq has denied shootning scuds, so its word against word.
Anyhow... the Us has once again violated the UN laws they themselves helped create. You cannot go to war against another country, unless that country has first attacked you or one of your allies.
BTW- Scuds are ILLEGAL via 1441, and if the inspectors couldn't find them...well...what are the odds that they could find a vial of VX? Not to mention that THAT is a breach of UN mandate, which is "international law".
I guess if you want to support a man who has gassed entire Kurdish villages for fun and who likes to pour gas down the throats of his political enemies and light it, then be my guest.
Here the gas prices dropped today.
Anyhoo, Iraq has had 12 years, in that time they basically told the UN to shove it, so by all means, regime change! :)
Right now it looks like there won't even be a war per se, more of little skirmishes. I mean, the Iraq army is comprised of people forced into service, they are surrenduring because they don't want to fight, and they don't want to die. Simple as that.
And to help lighten the mood
[url]http://www.gulfwardrinkinggame.com/[/url]
It should be noted, That the US Supported Saddam coming into power.
[B]Right.... All the US wants to do is Install A pro american Goverment in again(Saddam was the first one in). And get all that Yummy oil.
It should be noted, That the US Supported Saddam coming into power. [/B][/QUOTE]
*THIS* is why I got so disillusioned with the anti-war stance and came to my current opinions...
Oh wait. They turned into the Taliban....
You used to be one of, no, THE best liberal/democrat debator on these forums before, and always managed to get your viewpoint across, consicely. Hell, on most domestic issues, I even agreed with you.
But lately, all I've seen are incorrect analogies and comparisons, Lame conspiracy theories, and the belief that America's transformation into the nation of Eurasia is imminent.
this is NOT a flame, but a very sad, sad observation :(
Two days ago, a woman a few miles from my house was pulled into a tree shredder, while the blurb in the paper was quite small, it was still a horrifying read. Take a moment to think about that experience, both from the womans perspective, and from the perspective of her co-workers.
Now, this was the first time I've ever heard of a person being completely pulled into a shredder like that, but then today I learned something far more horrifying.
This is a method of Saddam Hussains for execution, apparently a very popular one. Head first or feet first, makes little difference other then the time the victim dies screaming. The remains are used for fish bait. Whats more, is Saddams own sons will over see these executions.
And that is the tip of the iceburg. With a human Shredder, you can only kill one person at a time. Quessay and Uday are allowed much much more.
In a way I can find it in my heart to find sorrow for those two, but only for a moment. As children they were given disarmed grenades as play things, as toddlers they went on trips with their father. But while most fathers would take their children to the local Zoo, Saddam took them to the tourture chambers, which are still in use today. There they use a varietys of tourture decives, Electrified pinciers, tools used for slowly dismembering people, etc. Once the victim was dead, the body would be sent to the family.
Reading that may not be enough, so I want you to try and imagen this, you open the door, and the Iraqi military hands you a large box, you open it, and there is your father, his body is a mass of blue and black, there is still dried blood all over him, and he is missing parts of his hands, or other limbs.
If you have any power of imagination, that should have made you cringe at the very least.
Saddam appears to belive in the symbolic power of mutilation, He was aiming at the creation of “a new man” in Iraq, just as Hitler and Stalin had tried to do in Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia. He may well have made his sons into psychopaths.
Uday is more in the media spotlight, but let me give you this account, told by one of Udays previous body doubles.
Uday was walking when he saw a pretty woman, walking with her husband, a captain in the Iraqi army. When she ignored him, he grabbed her, had her taken to a hotel room, and violently raped her. He then threw her out of the third story window, to her death. Her husband he had executed.
you want more? Saddams sons have been known to enter a random city with Iraqi forces, and kill every living thing in it.
Saddam conducts chemical weapons tests on his own people. (You ask for more inspectors, yet the inspectors are not allowed open search, they have to tell where they are going, and in the time it takes to drive there it would be easy to clear away any signs of munitions, inspectors would never find anything,if you were to enter a mansion, told to find one person, taken into a room, asked where you wanted to go, blindfolded for ten minutes, then taken to that room, would you ever find the person you wanted? no, because they would move around!)
What is really amazing is that those that oppose the war do so "For the civilians". Well, the civilians have been fleeing Iraq in the millions, and those that make it out are thanking us. They cannot vocolize oppesition to Saddam in their own country, to do so would sign their death warrent, and the deaths of every member of their family.
They cannot organize rallys, such have been occuring in Britan, Washington, and many other places in the world, because if they did, they would all be killed. Their family members, would be killed.
So, the next time you want to say "What about the civilians?" remember this:
Human. Shredder.
[B]Right.... All the US wants to do is Install A pro american Goverment in again(Saddam was the first one in). And get all that Yummy oil.[/b][/quote]
The Iraqis couldn't care less why we are there, just as long as Hussein won't be at the end, and we don't overstay our welcome. Liberated Iraqis are telling us to take their oil. Of course, if we have our way, the oil fields won't go to us. Even if that's what they've wanted all along, and the Iraqis don't care, at this point it would be very bad PR to take them.
[quote]It should be noted, That the US Supported Saddam coming into power. [/B][/QUOTE]
It should also be noted that it wasn't Bush's fault.