10th anniversary...wow...i didn't realize i was 11 when it started...i can't believe it's 10 years old! It still looks better than 99% of the sci-fi produced since then...and of course, in terms of story, nothing compares..
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Keyan [/i]
[B]10th anniversary...wow...i didn't realize i was 11 when it started...i can't believe it's 10 years old! It still looks better than 99% of the sci-fi produced since then...and of course, in terms of story, nothing compares.. [/B][/QUOTE]
Farscape compares, if not exceeds. I can't really make a full judgement as I am still in the middle of season2(of B5), but i REALLY love farscape. If there was a farscape forum... oh the joy!
Well, B5's cgi doesn't compare with TNG's CGI because there was little to none. :P
It was models. Lots of models.
DS9 was the first trek, I believe, to use CGI, but did so mid-run. Voyager, started it early, but after DS9. And hell, Enterprise had it form the start, but it sucks. :P
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by SpiritOne [/i]
[B]the problem with Enterprise is the stories are so damn linear. Oh, and their special effects need some work too. [/B][/QUOTE]
Linear? How so?
And special effects don't happen with primitive, warp 5 era technology :p
1) Beauty shot of ship. Crew are happy.
1a) B-plot introduced.
2) Bad guy presents himself.
2a) A-Plot introduced.
3) Bad Guy makes/begins sinister plot.
4) Crew find clues as to nature of sinister plot.
5) Crew makes a heroic move and interrupts sinister plot.
6) Villian either turns to the side of good or continues being evil.
7) Enterprise crew happy. A/B Plots resolved.
8) Reset button is hit. Events forgotten.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Sanfam [/i]
[B]Linear. i.e.
1) Beauty shot of ship. Crew are happy.
1a) B-plot introduced.
2) Bad guy presents himself.
2a) A-Plot introduced.
3) Bad Guy makes/begins sinister plot.
4) Crew find clues as to nature of sinister plot.
5) Crew makes a heroic move and interrupts sinister plot.
6) Villian either turns to the side of good or continues being evil.
7) Enterprise crew happy. A/B Plots resolved.
8) Reset button is hit. Events forgotten. [/B][/QUOTE]
1: yep
1a: well duh. same in every single story since the Illiad
2: nope, not always, actually, not very often.
2a: yep. multiple storylines always
3: again, not really
4: nope. sheesh, not even every ep HAS a villan
5: not always, but usually
6: bah, nope.
7: usually, not always
8: never. there are actually numerous mentions of previous missions, returning charechtors, etc.
do you even watch the show? since you just describes TNG, DS9, Voyager, and Farscape. (Farscape sans 8)
The problem I brought up was more subtle than just my description and timeline.
The problem is, Enterprise has clearly defined good guys and clearly defined bad guys. Bad guys are bad, and will forever be such. Good guys, ditto.
The plots all have the same ring. I'd rather not go into detail, as I'd have to dig up specific examples, but if you look quickly, it's there. Plots follow specific patterns. Well defined patterns.
I mean, when you've only watched ten minutes of an episode and already predicted what turns out to be the correct ending, something's wrong with the story. It's neither engaging, nor complex. Enterprise and Voyager suffer(ed) from this. I feel that some of these plots are insulting my intelligence, as well. Gross oversimplifications of some elements, such as boiling plot changes down to devices that do it automatically, or the urge to "reinforce" the evilness/goodness of characters every five minutes does not make me feel like I'm being respected by the writers.
This is not to say each did not ahve their respective gems. Voyager had a number of incredible episodes (all of them, though, revolve around the Holodoc), and Enterprise has one I love, two I really like. The rest I either don't care for, or greatly dislike.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Sanfam [/i]
[B]The problem I brought up was more subtle than just my description and timeline.
The problem is, Enterprise has clearly defined good guys and clearly defined bad guys. Bad guys are bad, and will forever be such. Good guys, ditto.
The plots all have the same ring. I'd rather not go into detail, as I'd have to dig up specific examples, but if you look quickly, it's there. Plots follow specific patterns. Well defined patterns.
I mean, when you've only watched ten minutes of an episode and already predicted what turns out to be the correct ending, something's wrong with the story. It's neither engaging, nor complex. Enterprise and Voyager suffer(ed) from this. I feel that some of these plots are insulting my intelligence, as well. Gross oversimplifications of some elements, such as boiling plot changes down to devices that do it automatically, or the urge to "reinforce" the evilness/goodness of characters every five minutes does not make me feel like I'm being respected by the writers.
This is not to say each did not ahve their respective gems. Voyager had a number of incredible episodes (all of them, though, revolve around the Holodoc), and Enterprise has one I love, two I really like. The rest I either don't care for, or greatly dislike. [/B][/QUOTE]
It sucks how well you crush arguements. :p
I am forced to agree with you on most points. Though I did like pretty much every Voyager Borg episode.
yeah..ST is just boring, Farscape is good, but I got some problems with a few of the episodes, and anyway, my opinion is that though the CGI nowadays is great, I never compare them to the B5 CGI. I just get the impression that there was A LOT more CGI in B5 than in series nowadays.....
Biggles<font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
Sanfam: Not entirely true regarding all good Voyager episodes being on the holodeck. [i]The Year of Hell[/i] (the one with the B5 ripoff model) was the best episode, in my opinion, and didn't take place on the holodeck. :)
Regarding Enterprise, though, you are right. I like Broken Bow a lot, Cold Front was pretty good, and I thought the final of season 1 was excellent on every level. But many are just so average and forgettable. And then we have the first episode of season 2. "Look, I just made a temporal transmitter by banging a few strips of copper flat!" Oh dear.
[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Biggles [/i]
[B]
2. "Look, I just made a temporal transmitter by banging a few strips of copper flat!" Oh dear. [/B][/QUOTE]
Oh my god, that pissed the hell out of me. It's like wtf. People can't maniplulate time like that.
Comments
Now it needs to play again... :D
and they had the same warp core as the enterprise-a refit!
[B]10th anniversary...wow...i didn't realize i was 11 when it started...i can't believe it's 10 years old! It still looks better than 99% of the sci-fi produced since then...and of course, in terms of story, nothing compares.. [/B][/QUOTE]
Farscape compares, if not exceeds. I can't really make a full judgement as I am still in the middle of season2(of B5), but i REALLY love farscape. If there was a farscape forum... oh the joy!
It was models. Lots of models.
DS9 was the first trek, I believe, to use CGI, but did so mid-run. Voyager, started it early, but after DS9. And hell, Enterprise had it form the start, but it sucks. :P
[B]the problem with Enterprise is the stories are so damn linear. Oh, and their special effects need some work too. [/B][/QUOTE]
Linear? How so?
And special effects don't happen with primitive, warp 5 era technology :p
1) Beauty shot of ship. Crew are happy.
1a) B-plot introduced.
2) Bad guy presents himself.
2a) A-Plot introduced.
3) Bad Guy makes/begins sinister plot.
4) Crew find clues as to nature of sinister plot.
5) Crew makes a heroic move and interrupts sinister plot.
6) Villian either turns to the side of good or continues being evil.
7) Enterprise crew happy. A/B Plots resolved.
8) Reset button is hit. Events forgotten.
[B]Linear. i.e.
1) Beauty shot of ship. Crew are happy.
1a) B-plot introduced.
2) Bad guy presents himself.
2a) A-Plot introduced.
3) Bad Guy makes/begins sinister plot.
4) Crew find clues as to nature of sinister plot.
5) Crew makes a heroic move and interrupts sinister plot.
6) Villian either turns to the side of good or continues being evil.
7) Enterprise crew happy. A/B Plots resolved.
8) Reset button is hit. Events forgotten. [/B][/QUOTE]
1: yep
1a: well duh. same in every single story since the Illiad
2: nope, not always, actually, not very often.
2a: yep. multiple storylines always
3: again, not really
4: nope. sheesh, not even every ep HAS a villan
5: not always, but usually
6: bah, nope.
7: usually, not always
8: never. there are actually numerous mentions of previous missions, returning charechtors, etc.
do you even watch the show? since you just describes TNG, DS9, Voyager, and Farscape. (Farscape sans 8)
The problem is, Enterprise has clearly defined good guys and clearly defined bad guys. Bad guys are bad, and will forever be such. Good guys, ditto.
The plots all have the same ring. I'd rather not go into detail, as I'd have to dig up specific examples, but if you look quickly, it's there. Plots follow specific patterns. Well defined patterns.
I mean, when you've only watched ten minutes of an episode and already predicted what turns out to be the correct ending, something's wrong with the story. It's neither engaging, nor complex. Enterprise and Voyager suffer(ed) from this. I feel that some of these plots are insulting my intelligence, as well. Gross oversimplifications of some elements, such as boiling plot changes down to devices that do it automatically, or the urge to "reinforce" the evilness/goodness of characters every five minutes does not make me feel like I'm being respected by the writers.
This is not to say each did not ahve their respective gems. Voyager had a number of incredible episodes (all of them, though, revolve around the Holodoc), and Enterprise has one I love, two I really like. The rest I either don't care for, or greatly dislike.
[B]The problem I brought up was more subtle than just my description and timeline.
The problem is, Enterprise has clearly defined good guys and clearly defined bad guys. Bad guys are bad, and will forever be such. Good guys, ditto.
The plots all have the same ring. I'd rather not go into detail, as I'd have to dig up specific examples, but if you look quickly, it's there. Plots follow specific patterns. Well defined patterns.
I mean, when you've only watched ten minutes of an episode and already predicted what turns out to be the correct ending, something's wrong with the story. It's neither engaging, nor complex. Enterprise and Voyager suffer(ed) from this. I feel that some of these plots are insulting my intelligence, as well. Gross oversimplifications of some elements, such as boiling plot changes down to devices that do it automatically, or the urge to "reinforce" the evilness/goodness of characters every five minutes does not make me feel like I'm being respected by the writers.
This is not to say each did not ahve their respective gems. Voyager had a number of incredible episodes (all of them, though, revolve around the Holodoc), and Enterprise has one I love, two I really like. The rest I either don't care for, or greatly dislike. [/B][/QUOTE]
It sucks how well you crush arguements. :p
I am forced to agree with you on most points. Though I did like pretty much every Voyager Borg episode.
Regarding Enterprise, though, you are right. I like Broken Bow a lot, Cold Front was pretty good, and I thought the final of season 1 was excellent on every level. But many are just so average and forgettable. And then we have the first episode of season 2. "Look, I just made a temporal transmitter by banging a few strips of copper flat!" Oh dear.
[B]
2. "Look, I just made a temporal transmitter by banging a few strips of copper flat!" Oh dear. [/B][/QUOTE]
Oh my god, that pissed the hell out of me. It's like wtf. People can't maniplulate time like that.
And year of hell was a TERRIBLE episode(s)!
I loved Scorpion.