Oh no.... I just found out about this from a news website and I can't believe this. We just talked about the Challenger's faith in another thread. Really really sad. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/frown.gif[/img]
I just hope that they won't be stupid and stop the space program and flights for years again. And I also hope that they'd stop being stupid and bring back the X-33 Venture Star program and finally advance in space tech at least somewhat damnit.
Btw, wasn't the launch delayed from it's original launch time? I'm recalling something like that.
I waas just looking for the picture than Keyan posted. I really wish that the news would quit trying to connect this to terrorism. It's truly a sad day for us all.
I guess that'd put this on hold?:
[url="http://www.mywisecounty.com/news/012003-1.htm"]http://www.mywisecounty.com/news/012003-1.htm[/url]
Sad sad day
Random ChaosActually Carefully-selected Order in disguise
hopefully it will give it a kickstart, mambo...after all now we will need to build a shuttle to replace it - and what I heard on the news is the facilities to construct a new Shuttle no longer exist...
[quote]Originally posted by mambo_morden:
[b]I waas just looking for the picture than Keyan posted. I really wish that the news would quit trying to connect this to terrorism. It's truly a sad day for us all.
[/b][/quote]
If anything that are trying not to link it to terrorism and saying terrorism had nothing to do with it. I don't know what news channel you are watching.
Now I highly doubt there will be anywhere near that long of a delay before the next flight. We have people on the international space station plus the investigation probably won't take as long especially since the debrie is on land.
[This message has been edited by Ranger1 (edited 02-01-2003).]
The people on the ISS can return to Earth on the Soyuz capsule that the Russians provide for emergency escape. But this return vehicle has to be replaced every six months and I don't know when it was last replaced.
[quote]Originally posted by Ranger1:
[b] If anything that are trying not to link it to terrorism and saying terrorism had nothing to do with it. I don't know what news channel you are watching.
Now I highly doubt there will be anywhere near that long of a delay before the next flight. We have people on the international space station plus the investigation probably won't take as long especially since the debrie is on land.
[This message has been edited by Ranger1 (edited 02-01-2003).][/b][/quote]
Earlier this morning - right after it happened there was alot of chatter on CNN about SAMS. From different sites over the internet I've seen some people calling them to ground the shuttle fleet - see some posts above. Certainly hope there isn't a dely.
At the very least, they're grounding the fleet to see if its a design flaw or just a freak accident.
As for selling debris on e-bay...some idiot already tried that.
[url="http://www.descentbb.net/ubb/Forum20/HTML/003246.html"]http://www.descentbb.net/ubb/Forum20/HTML/003246.html[/url]
------------------
[b][url="http://www.savefarscape.com/"]SAVE FARSCAPE![/url][/b]
"Isn't the universe an amazing place? I wouldn't live anywhere else! Love to stay! Can't, have to go! Kiss! Kiss! Love! Love! Bye! *kiss*" - G'Kar
Our dreams, torn asunder
Fires in the sky, roar like thunder
Our shuttle falls, and people wonder
The crew is lost, their spirits soar
But to us here, they are no more.
They go with us, as we continue to explore.
Random ChaosActually Carefully-selected Order in disguise
Vertigo: I don't think that person there really has a space shuttle part. To start with, he is selling it from somewhere in Germany...
If you look at the URL of that ebay thing it's not on ebay - I looked up the seller and the ebay item number that was on that and it's a bogus one on actual ebay. It wouldn't surprise me though if someone did try it.
I think this thread should be helpful enough in clearing things up...
Care of PWA of Terran BBS:
[quote]So speaketh Cat, my mom:
Friends:
Regarding the tragedy of the Columbia today and the subsequent rumors of terrorism:
My brother works with NASA on the launches -- yes, he is the proverbial "rocket scientist", ret. USAF Colonel with 27 years of experience in missiles and the Space Shuttle.
I called him in Florida. He is certain that one of the 3 APU's suffered a catastrophic failure on reentry. Control confirms losing contact with one of the (constantly monitored) APU's. Among other things, the Auxiliary Power Units control the pitch and yaw of the Shuttle in atmospheric flight. The Shuttle enters atmosphere at speeds of approximately 19,000 mph (six miles per second) and makes rapid transition to landing speed. At 40 miles up the Shuttle appears to have completely lost control, began rolling; and the force broke it apart.
There is no SAM which could have hit it, no military plane which can reach that ceiling. (A missile launched from a military jet possibly might, but it would have to have been one of ours.) It's also extremely unlikely that a timed sabotage device could have been planted in the Shuttle, because of security and payload monitoring.
Terrorism can be ruled out.
My brother told me this was a scientific mission with some 185 scientific experiments being conducted in the science bay. Columbia was the only Space Shuttle designed for this. The seven astronauts, including the commander and pilot, were all brilliant scientists. My brother said, "the collective IQ of the entire earth declined today" with the loss of these brilliant people.[/quote]
[quote]Originally posted by mambo_morden:
[b]If you look at the URL of that ebay thing it's not on ebay - I looked up the seller and the ebay item number that was on that and it's a bogus one on actual ebay. It wouldn't surprise me though if someone did try it.[/b][/quote]
As i said before, Someone will try and sell it...
[url="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2909705555&category=1468"]http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2909705555&category=1468[/url]
SPACE SHUTTLE COLUMBIA DEBRIS!
That is plausable, if there was an APU failure, the system would have transferred the load to the other working units. However, IIRC, these units are Fuel Cells, and they are located in the rear of the orbiter. If one blew up, it would have caused the orbiter to breakup quickly.
I've only caught the first bit of the NASA technical conference (its still going on, and I'm listening as I write this). It seems the first failures (thermometers, I think, than other components) started on the left wing.
The piece of ice or insulation or whatever it was that hit [i]Columbia[/i] on launch hit... the left wing.
I'm probably jumping to conclusions, but it seems to be the most logical thing to me at this moment. We will, as always, know more later.
---
On the subject of [i]Endevour[/i] replacing [i]Challenger[/i] and whether something similar would happen now, originally they did intend to refit [i]Enterprise[/i] to become spaceworthy, I believe they intended to do this even before [i]Challenger[/i] was lost, but it was decided to be too difficult or something. They reconsidered it after [i]Challenger[/i] but decided it was to difficult, or maybe the Smithsonian wouldn't give it back, I don't really remember.
So they used several spare parts made during the construction of the first five shuttles to build [i]Endevour[/i]. Since we don't have those parts to give us a head start, its probably unlikely that we'll build a seventh shuttle.
Or, who knows? Maybe they'll get [i]Enterprise[/i] back from the Smithsonian and use her as a foundation. I don't know, and at this moment, I doubt anyone does or is working on it. The forensics is the larger issue at this point.
---
And on the subject of people selling the debris on eBay, a part of me hopes that its toxic and gets them rather ill, and the less angry and evil side of me hopes that they're criminally charged with salvaging government property and without intent of returning it to its proper owner.
Sad day...I live in Florida, one hour from Kennady Space center...the space shuttle flies right over my house every time it lands...
not today. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/frown.gif[/img]
May God be with their families.
------------------
[b]whitestar90: [/b]"it would give the computer a heartattack just looking at it" -
[b]Sanfam: [/b]"And Drazi didn't like it one bit.-
[b]Mr.Bungle: [/b][i]"So that's where the forum went..."[/i]-
---
[b][i]ahhh, the good old days of HTML.[/i][/b]
ok, I heard the last transmission awhile ago, and it really Pi**ed me Off...
"...Tire Pressure Readings..."
TIRE PRESSURE?!? what kind of MORONS decided to put AIR FILLED TIRES in a SPACE SHUTTLE?!? Hello? Temperature/Pressure changes to the extreme! There is a possibility that the tire exploded, thus tearing a hole in the tire well, and at mach 18+ a hole of any size would have torn the ship apart! Seriously, Nascar racers use solid tires! [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/mad.gif[/img]
No matter WHAT you filled those tires with, its one more thing that can go wrong...WHY would they do that? to save a few pounds? sheesh.
------------------
[b]whitestar90: [/b]"it would give the computer a heartattack just looking at it" -
[b]Sanfam: [/b]"And Drazi didn't like it one bit.-
[b]Mr.Bungle: [/b][i]"So that's where the forum went..."[/i]-
---
[b][i]ahhh, the good old days of HTML.[/i][/b]
[quote]TIRE PRESSURE?!? what kind of MORONS decided to put AIR FILLED TIRES in a SPACE SHUTTLE?!? Hello? Temperature/Pressure changes to the extreme! There is a possibility that the tire exploded, thus tearing a hole in the tire well, and at mach 18+ a hole of any size would have torn the ship apart! [/quote]
Tire pressure had nothing do with this accident. The tires are filled with nitrogen, and the pressure in the tires is not that high.
[quote]Seriously, Nascar racers use solid tires! [/quote]
That's a terrible comparison.
Nascar vehicles don't weigh more than 80 tons or land on a runway travelling at more than 200 miles per hour.
The tires are perfectly safe.
[quote]Yeah, it is definitely looking like tile failure IMO.[/quote]
Tile failure did not cause this accident. Keep in mind that NASA said they LOST temperature sensors. They didn't say the temperatures were too high. In fact, they made a point to mention that they didn't get any high temperature readings except in the gear well, and that was after they lost the wing temp sensors.
If this had been just a tile problem, they would have seen temperatures increase much sooner.
[This message has been edited by samuelk (edited 02-01-2003).]
Don't know what caused the it but perhaps they can now prevent it from happening again once they get a better picture.It is a sad day and perhaps its time to seriously contemplate uprgrading the shuttles as they getting on in years.
------------------
"When it is time,come to this place,call our name,we will be here"-Walkers of Sigma957
[url="http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/babylon/"][i][b]The Babylon Project[/i][/b][/url]-Bringing Babylon5 to Freespace2
[url="http://ifh.firstones.com"]I've Found Her-Babylon 5 free game[/url]
[quote]Originally posted by A2597:
[b]ok, I heard the last transmission awhile ago, and it really Pi**ed me Off...
"...Tire Pressure Readings..."
TIRE PRESSURE?!? what kind of MORONS decided to put AIR FILLED TIRES in a SPACE SHUTTLE?!? Hello? Temperature/Pressure changes to the extreme! There is a possibility that the tire exploded, thus tearing a hole in the tire well, and at mach 18+ a hole of any size would have torn the ship apart! Seriously, Nascar racers use solid tires! [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/mad.gif[/img]
[/b][/quote]
Nascar tires at not solid or is any other racing tire, they fill them with air. Commercial aricraft don't even use solid tires. I would imagine the tires need to be flexible with all the weight that comes down on the tire when he shuttle touches down. Imagine the impact if it were solid. They probably act act kind alike shock absorbers which the gear has as well.
[This message has been edited by Ranger1 (edited 02-01-2003).]
Comments
I didnt want to frell up the forum, Just go to intellicast.com and put Monroe, LA in as the radar site and select NEXRAD base reflectivity loop.
[This message has been edited by ZocaloHobo (edited 02-01-2003).]
I just hope that they won't be stupid and stop the space program and flights for years again. And I also hope that they'd stop being stupid and bring back the X-33 Venture Star program and finally advance in space tech at least somewhat damnit.
Btw, wasn't the launch delayed from it's original launch time? I'm recalling something like that.
[img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/frown.gif[/img]
- PJH
I guess that'd put this on hold?:
[url="http://www.mywisecounty.com/news/012003-1.htm"]http://www.mywisecounty.com/news/012003-1.htm[/url]
Sad sad day
[b]I waas just looking for the picture than Keyan posted. I really wish that the news would quit trying to connect this to terrorism. It's truly a sad day for us all.
[/b][/quote]
If anything that are trying not to link it to terrorism and saying terrorism had nothing to do with it. I don't know what news channel you are watching.
Now I highly doubt there will be anywhere near that long of a delay before the next flight. We have people on the international space station plus the investigation probably won't take as long especially since the debrie is on land.
[This message has been edited by Ranger1 (edited 02-01-2003).]
[b] If anything that are trying not to link it to terrorism and saying terrorism had nothing to do with it. I don't know what news channel you are watching.
Now I highly doubt there will be anywhere near that long of a delay before the next flight. We have people on the international space station plus the investigation probably won't take as long especially since the debrie is on land.
[This message has been edited by Ranger1 (edited 02-01-2003).][/b][/quote]
Earlier this morning - right after it happened there was alot of chatter on CNN about SAMS. From different sites over the internet I've seen some people calling them to ground the shuttle fleet - see some posts above. Certainly hope there isn't a dely.
As for selling debris on e-bay...some idiot already tried that.
[url="http://www.descentbb.net/ubb/Forum20/HTML/003246.html"]http://www.descentbb.net/ubb/Forum20/HTML/003246.html[/url]
------------------
[b][url="http://www.savefarscape.com/"]SAVE FARSCAPE![/url][/b]
"Isn't the universe an amazing place? I wouldn't live anywhere else! Love to stay! Can't, have to go! Kiss! Kiss! Love! Love! Bye! *kiss*" - G'Kar
Fires in the sky, roar like thunder
Our shuttle falls, and people wonder
The crew is lost, their spirits soar
But to us here, they are no more.
They go with us, as we continue to explore.
Care of PWA of Terran BBS:
[quote]So speaketh Cat, my mom:
Friends:
Regarding the tragedy of the Columbia today and the subsequent rumors of terrorism:
My brother works with NASA on the launches -- yes, he is the proverbial "rocket scientist", ret. USAF Colonel with 27 years of experience in missiles and the Space Shuttle.
I called him in Florida. He is certain that one of the 3 APU's suffered a catastrophic failure on reentry. Control confirms losing contact with one of the (constantly monitored) APU's. Among other things, the Auxiliary Power Units control the pitch and yaw of the Shuttle in atmospheric flight. The Shuttle enters atmosphere at speeds of approximately 19,000 mph (six miles per second) and makes rapid transition to landing speed. At 40 miles up the Shuttle appears to have completely lost control, began rolling; and the force broke it apart.
There is no SAM which could have hit it, no military plane which can reach that ceiling. (A missile launched from a military jet possibly might, but it would have to have been one of ours.) It's also extremely unlikely that a timed sabotage device could have been planted in the Shuttle, because of security and payload monitoring.
Terrorism can be ruled out.
My brother told me this was a scientific mission with some 185 scientific experiments being conducted in the science bay. Columbia was the only Space Shuttle designed for this. The seven astronauts, including the commander and pilot, were all brilliant scientists. My brother said, "the collective IQ of the entire earth declined today" with the loss of these brilliant people.[/quote]
[b]If you look at the URL of that ebay thing it's not on ebay - I looked up the seller and the ebay item number that was on that and it's a bogus one on actual ebay. It wouldn't surprise me though if someone did try it.[/b][/quote]
As i said before, Someone will try and sell it...
[url="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2909705555&category=1468"]http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2909705555&category=1468[/url]
SPACE SHUTTLE COLUMBIA DEBRIS!
That is plausable, if there was an APU failure, the system would have transferred the load to the other working units. However, IIRC, these units are Fuel Cells, and they are located in the rear of the orbiter. If one blew up, it would have caused the orbiter to breakup quickly.
EDIT: well, yes, of course, if it was an explosive catastrophic failure, then that's another thing entirely.
[This message has been edited by Keyan (edited 02-01-2003).]
The piece of ice or insulation or whatever it was that hit [i]Columbia[/i] on launch hit... the left wing.
I'm probably jumping to conclusions, but it seems to be the most logical thing to me at this moment. We will, as always, know more later.
---
On the subject of [i]Endevour[/i] replacing [i]Challenger[/i] and whether something similar would happen now, originally they did intend to refit [i]Enterprise[/i] to become spaceworthy, I believe they intended to do this even before [i]Challenger[/i] was lost, but it was decided to be too difficult or something. They reconsidered it after [i]Challenger[/i] but decided it was to difficult, or maybe the Smithsonian wouldn't give it back, I don't really remember.
So they used several spare parts made during the construction of the first five shuttles to build [i]Endevour[/i]. Since we don't have those parts to give us a head start, its probably unlikely that we'll build a seventh shuttle.
Or, who knows? Maybe they'll get [i]Enterprise[/i] back from the Smithsonian and use her as a foundation. I don't know, and at this moment, I doubt anyone does or is working on it. The forensics is the larger issue at this point.
---
And on the subject of people selling the debris on eBay, a part of me hopes that its toxic and gets them rather ill, and the less angry and evil side of me hopes that they're criminally charged with salvaging government property and without intent of returning it to its proper owner.
[img]http://www.third-space.net/graphics/ebay_listing.jpg[/img]
[b]Another jerk posting parts on ebay, they've both been taken down, but still:
[img]http://www.third-space.net/graphics/ebay_listing.jpg[/img] [/b][/quote]
There was a third one up there too, these people deserve to die of radiation poisioning.
Sad day...I live in Florida, one hour from Kennady Space center...the space shuttle flies right over my house every time it lands...
not today. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/frown.gif[/img]
May God be with their families.
------------------
[b]whitestar90: [/b]"it would give the computer a heartattack just looking at it" -
[b]Sanfam: [/b]"And Drazi didn't like it one bit.-
[b]Mr.Bungle: [/b][i]"So that's where the forum went..."[/i]-
---
[b][i]ahhh, the good old days of HTML.[/i][/b]
"...Tire Pressure Readings..."
TIRE PRESSURE?!? what kind of MORONS decided to put AIR FILLED TIRES in a SPACE SHUTTLE?!? Hello? Temperature/Pressure changes to the extreme! There is a possibility that the tire exploded, thus tearing a hole in the tire well, and at mach 18+ a hole of any size would have torn the ship apart! Seriously, Nascar racers use solid tires! [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/mad.gif[/img]
No matter WHAT you filled those tires with, its one more thing that can go wrong...WHY would they do that? to save a few pounds? sheesh.
------------------
[b]whitestar90: [/b]"it would give the computer a heartattack just looking at it" -
[b]Sanfam: [/b]"And Drazi didn't like it one bit.-
[b]Mr.Bungle: [/b][i]"So that's where the forum went..."[/i]-
---
[b][i]ahhh, the good old days of HTML.[/i][/b]
Tire pressure had nothing do with this accident. The tires are filled with nitrogen, and the pressure in the tires is not that high.
[quote]Seriously, Nascar racers use solid tires! [/quote]
That's a terrible comparison.
Nascar vehicles don't weigh more than 80 tons or land on a runway travelling at more than 200 miles per hour.
The tires are perfectly safe.
[quote]Yeah, it is definitely looking like tile failure IMO.[/quote]
Tile failure did not cause this accident. Keep in mind that NASA said they LOST temperature sensors. They didn't say the temperatures were too high. In fact, they made a point to mention that they didn't get any high temperature readings except in the gear well, and that was after they lost the wing temp sensors.
If this had been just a tile problem, they would have seen temperatures increase much sooner.
[This message has been edited by samuelk (edited 02-01-2003).]
------------------
"When it is time,come to this place,call our name,we will be here"-Walkers of Sigma957
[url="http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/babylon/"][i][b]The Babylon Project[/i][/b][/url]-Bringing Babylon5 to Freespace2
[url="http://ifh.firstones.com"]I've Found Her-Babylon 5 free game[/url]
[b]ok, I heard the last transmission awhile ago, and it really Pi**ed me Off...
"...Tire Pressure Readings..."
TIRE PRESSURE?!? what kind of MORONS decided to put AIR FILLED TIRES in a SPACE SHUTTLE?!? Hello? Temperature/Pressure changes to the extreme! There is a possibility that the tire exploded, thus tearing a hole in the tire well, and at mach 18+ a hole of any size would have torn the ship apart! Seriously, Nascar racers use solid tires! [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/mad.gif[/img]
[/b][/quote]
Nascar tires at not solid or is any other racing tire, they fill them with air. Commercial aricraft don't even use solid tires. I would imagine the tires need to be flexible with all the weight that comes down on the tire when he shuttle touches down. Imagine the impact if it were solid. They probably act act kind alike shock absorbers which the gear has as well.
[This message has been edited by Ranger1 (edited 02-01-2003).]