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Space Shuttle Columbia Lost....

samuelksamuelk The Unstoppable Mr. 'K'
Video footage on CNN is showing the shuttle breaking up pretty high in the atmosphere, shortly after contact was lost. I know that they have emergency escape procedures, but I doubt there's anyhting that can be done when the shuttle is traveling at Mach 25. Plus, they're way too high.

This does not look good.
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Comments

  • Entil'ZhaEntil'Zha I see famous people
    [quote]Originally posted by samuelk:
    [b]Video footage on CNN is showing the shuttle breaking up pretty high in the atmosphere, shortly after contact was lost. I know that they have emergency escape procedures, but I doubt there's anyhting that can be done when the shuttle is traveling at Mach 25. Plus, they're way too high.

    This does not look good.[/b][/quote]


    3 days since the challenger anniversary [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/frown.gif[/img]

    How long before some idiot in texas finds debris and tries to sell it on Ebay?



    [This message has been edited by Entil'Zha (edited 02-01-2003).]
  • This is indeed a sad day once again... [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/frown.gif[/img]

    Speculations?
  • Entil'ZhaEntil'Zha I see famous people
    [quote]Originally posted by ZocaloHobo:
    [b]This is indeed a sad day once again... [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/frown.gif[/img]

    Speculations?[/b][/quote]

    Speculation.... The piece of ice that hit the shuttle on launch cracked the heat-shield. which then failed on re-entry.

    Or, for some reason during re-entry there was an explosion or other event that changed the shuttle's attitude, and then it was violently shaken apart by the turbulance of re-entry.

    Or, least likely (imho), a computer error caused an incorrect re-entry attitude causing burnup on re-entry.
  • David of MacDavid of Mac Elite Ranger Ca
    My God.
  • Agreed....I do think that they lost some tiles (heatshield) on the bottom or rear (near the OMS engines) that caused a catastrophic burn through which broke apart the Orbiter.
  • What a great loss... [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/frown.gif[/img] This world needs more happy days.

    A warning to you and all your friends and family: If you live in the southern US and come across debris DO NOT get near it, get away, the fumes will kill you within days.

    Speculation: Re-entry computer failure, failure of the ceramic tiles. Act of God, fate, or act of man.
  • AnlaShokAnlaShok Democrat From Hell
    Too high for a SAM. Security was tightened greatly for this launch. Insulation or ice from the launch seems to be the culprit, that and the fact that the Columbia was (I HATE having to use that word) 7 years beyond its expected lifetime.

    A tragic day.

    ------------------
    AnlaShok, Captain of the Gray Hand of Fate Squadron
    Sidhe-1
    Wielder of the Big Heavy Hammer of Obvious Truth
    "FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!"
  • The act of man is pretty remote, but possible. The US and the former Soviet Union had the capability to fire a missile from a fighter at the fringe of space (100000 feet) and hit a moving target in space. On of the USSR missles might have been sold to someone but the fighter jet would have been picked up on radar.

    I repeat this is pretty remote and highly unlikely, but should be noted.
  • I was thinking more along the lines of act of engineer on the ground before launch - IF - this has anything to do with sabotage which would just be… I can't find the right word.
  • I hearya, if (and this is a big if) it was an act of sabotage, God help us all...
  • Rogue TraderRogue Trader Somebody stop him...
    it was probably too old and the engines blew up.

    also did you guys know something fell off it on launch?
  • Yeah, but there not sure what it was, whether it was a chunk of ice off of the External Tank, hitting the Orbiter, or Tiles or other parts falling off.
  • WHY_oldWHY_old Elite Ranger
    I'm worried about what this means for future manned space missions...
  • David of MacDavid of Mac Elite Ranger Ca
    [quote]Originally posted by Rogue Trader:
    [b]it was probably too old and the engines blew up.[/b][/quote]

    It was probably not. In '99 she had a seventeen month refit. Not to mention the fact that we've been flying the same B-52 bombers for fifty years and they're still chugging along. Say what you will about american aircraft, but they are not easily aged.
  • RickRick Sector 14 Studios
    It's highly unlikely that it was a heat shield failure resulting from the insulation debris at lift-off. The processes and procedures for assessing post-liftoff damage are excrutiating, and you getter believe if there was an issue, it would have been known and addressed well before the Shuttle was allowed to commit to re-entry.

    The Challenger event was one of the most influential in my life--my engineering degree I went after because of it. I learned allot about that vehicle over that time. icluding the fact that the crew module can withstand over 20 g's of accelleration, so they may be able to recover it, the data recorders inside it, and bodies that will bring closure to the families.

    I'm still in shock. I still remember the last disaster like it was just yesterday. It's a feeling I'd hoped I'd not have to feel again.

    CBS is reporting that the debris appears centered in Macedoches, Texas.

    My thoughts and prayers go to the families in this time of tragedy. :/

    -R.



    ------------------
    [i]"...Never start a fight...but [b]always[/b] finish it."[/i]
  • Random ChaosRandom Chaos Actually Carefully-selected Order in disguise
    [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/frown.gif[/img] [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/frown.gif[/img] [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/frown.gif[/img]
  • RickRick Sector 14 Studios
    [quote]Originally posted by Rogue Trader:
    [b]it was probably too old and the engines blew up.

    also did you guys know something fell off it on launch?[/b][/quote]

    Ummm...no. They strip the shuttles down to the airframe ~ every 6-8 flights. Columbia had her last refit less than two years ago. If anything, she was newer.

    These craft are the most pampered vehicles on the face of the Earth, because of what they are called upon to do.

    Airframes are rated for ~100 flights, after which retirement is mandatory. Columbia, as I recall, had ~28 flights on hers.

    Re: debris: see my last post.

    -R.

    ------------------
    [i]"...Never start a fight...but [b]always[/b] finish it."[/i]

    [This message has been edited by Rick (edited 02-01-2003).]
  • So....Are there just 2 flyable Orbiters left?

    Atlantis and Endeavour?

    [This message has been edited by ZocaloHobo (edited 02-01-2003).]
  • No, there are several

    Discovery, Endevuour, Atlantis..crap, there is another one I think...
  • Discovery, thats the other one...Thanks!

    I knew I was missing one

    There is also Enterprise, but it was only for testing purposes only.
  • This is horrible. I hope we don't have the same same kind of setback we had before.

    They are saying on NBC that a NORAD early warning sat recorded a heat spike at the same location and time as the shuttle..indicating an expolosion, although who knows if that was the cause or an effect.

    And yes, the columbia had just had a complete engine replacement 2 flights ago IIRC.

    I wonder if they will now look at the Venture Star again..
  • Entil'ZhaEntil'Zha I see famous people
    [quote]Originally posted by ZocaloHobo:
    [b]Discovery, thats the other one...Thanks!

    I knew I was missing one

    There is also Enterprise, but it was only for testing purposes only.[/b][/quote]


    I had that same problem, i was just talkign to my wife and could only remember Columbia, Challenger, Endevour and Atlantis. i forgot all about Discovery.

    I thought that after the Challenger they should have refit Enterprise for spaceflight. and i did hear rumors that there is another shuttle being built, but i dunno about that.
  • This is terrible. And now there's talk about permanently grounding the fleet? Thats B******T! And with all of the new components and refurbishing and everything, Columbia was pretty much brand new... age had nothing to do with it. And they weren't worried at all about the piece of external tank foam that fell off during launch. They thought it might have struck the left wing, but they weren't worried about the damage, it was supposed to be nil.. so I highly doubt thats what caused it.

    This is a sad day.
  • Rogue TraderRogue Trader Somebody stop him...
    [quote]Originally posted by Rick:
    [b] Ummm...no. They strip the shuttles down to the airframe ~ every 6-8 flights. Columbia had her last refit less than two years ago. If anything, she was newer.

    These craft are the most pampered vehicles on the face of the Earth, because of what they are called upon to do.

    Airframes are rated for ~100 flights, after which retirement is mandatory. Columbia, as I recall, had ~28 flights on hers.

    Re: debris: see my last post.

    -R.

    [/b][/quote]

    i was just saying what i heard from a NTSB guy on one of the news channels.
  • Entil'ZhaEntil'Zha I see famous people
    [quote]Originally posted by Canuck:
    [b]This is terrible. And now there's talk about permanently grounding the fleet? Thats B******T! And with all of the new components and refurbishing and everything, Columbia was pretty much brand new... age had nothing to do with it. And they weren't worried at all about the piece of external tank foam that fell off during launch. They thought it might have struck the left wing, but they weren't worried about the damage, it was supposed to be nil.. so I highly doubt thats what caused it.

    This is a sad day.[/b][/quote]

    I'm sure the fleet will be grounded much like it was after Challenger. but i doubt it will be permanant. unless the x-35 (i think that was its designation) is finally ready to replace the shuttle fleet.
  • [quote]Originally posted by Entil'Zha:
    [b]
    I had that same problem, i was just talkign to my wife and could only remember Columbia, Challenger, Endevour and Atlantis. i forgot all about Discovery.

    I thought that after the Challenger they should have refit Enterprise for spaceflight. and i did hear rumors that there is another shuttle being built, but i dunno about that.

    [/b][/quote]

    Yeah, I was talking to mine as well.
  • samuelksamuelk The Unstoppable Mr. 'K'
    [quote]Originally posted by Rick:
    [b]It's highly unlikely that it was a heat shield failure resulting from the insulation debris at lift-off. The processes and procedures for assessing post-liftoff damage are excrutiating, and you getter believe if there was an issue, it would have been known and addressed well before the Shuttle was allowed to commit to re-entry.
    [/b][/quote]

    Regardless, there WAS a piece of insulation that fell off during lift-off, and it hit the wing of the shuttle. And the heat tiles on the shuttle are VERY VERY brittle. I NASA said there wasn't any damage, though. I just hope that doesn't come back and bite them in the ass.

    Though it could also be something like orbital debris hitting the shuttle.

    Coincidentally, Rick, the Challenger disaster was one of the things that made me get MY engineering degree, too.

    [quote]They are saying on NBC that a NORAD early warning sat recorded a heat spike at the same location and time as the shuttle..indicating an expolosion[/quote]

    That doesn't really indicate an explosion per se. A heat spike could easily be the result of a breakup of the shuttle (not a literal explosion), since unshielded parts of the shuttle would start to heat up.

    [This message has been edited by samuelk (edited 02-01-2003).]
  • Entil'ZhaEntil'Zha I see famous people
    [quote]Originally posted by ZocaloHobo:
    [b] Yeah, I was talking to mine as well.

    [/b][/quote]

    I dunno why i can never remember Discovery. For some reason, that one seems to leak out of my brain
  • They would have looked. Physically. I'm sure there was a space walk with a visual inspection.

    But yes, a piece of space sand could have cracked a tile..
  • I went to intellicast.com to look at the Nexrad images there. I didnt see any radar images from Dallas, but I went to Monroe, Louisiana and there is an image of the debris trail.

    My God, is all I can say.
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