I hate to say it, but there are a huge number of demographic statistics which would debate any attempt to claim that Christianity is in trouble in the US - which has been the only Christian nation to retain high levels of adherence to the faith, whereas the entirety of Europe has now become an exercise in traditional concepts of secularisation.
Perhaps that's finally about to change; either way, the figures still show a large section of the US population having a very definite relationship with the Christian faith.
Tyvar - I'm fairly confident when I say that opinions regarding Islam have taken a turn for the worst; the very term, post Sept 11th especially so, has connotations of fundamentalism and intolerance - against the grain of the early historical roots of the religion.
Still, I'm glad you agree that both Islam and Christianity share a great many of the same faults - history shows that both have more than enough blood on their hands - but I'm wary of all strong attachments to anything outside the bounds of rationality.
Perhaps that's all the more reason to be thankful we live in the west, with a long tradition of rational/sceptical thinking...
Mind you, I'm an atheist - I've already given faith up as a bad job.
Bungle as somebody who resides in america I can tell you that the "statistics" are in trouble, most of the people who identify themselves as "strongly" christian, are not terribly conservate or radical, most of the major branches such at Catholisicsm, Methodism, Luthranism and others have increadibly leftist leanings and do not reflect the common view as being religious zealots.
In my community there are religious right wing nuts, but they are outnumberd by the occurance of true marxist lenninst types on the left.
I was commenting on the trend of theology in Islam which ISNT as peacefull as the media likes to write about, and what I am hopefully pointing out is that if you want to maintain that athiest point of view your going to have to maintain a strong *gasp* "containment" position against Islam, because where ever you have large islamic populations there are major attempts to impart Shariah law. Thailand (traditionaly buddhist) is now on the edge of this conflict.
This is why I loathe these "faith based" things that Bush wants to fund. Our constitution was written so that church and state are forever to be seperate PRECISELY so that such things will not happen here.
When you say that kids have to have a moment of silence to pray in school, invoke the name of some god each morning, etc., you are establishing a precedent. Right now the US has a majority of christians. Your faith is in no danger here. If the fundies get their way, we'll be under the rule of christian law, or their interpretation of such. If muslims become the majority, then we'd have the precedent established that we can now be ruled by their law instead.
A dangerous path to tread, isn't it?
In US law, scientology is a religion. Do we want to fund schools based on THEIR teachings?
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AnlaShok, Captain of the Gray Hand of Fate Squadron
Sidhe-1
Wielder of the Big Heavy Hammer of Obvious Truth
"FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!"
Why was this thread re-opened? It got way off target, and seriously, the origenal question WAS answered.
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[b]whitestar90: [/b]"it would give the computer a heartattack just looking at it" -
[b]Sanfam: [/b]"And Drazi didn't like it one bit.-
[b]Mr.Bungle: [/b][i]"So that's where the forum went..."[/i]-
---
[b][i]ahhh, the good old days of HTML.[/i][/b]
Why not? This is the Zocalo, right? Off topic posts are the order of the day here.
As long as people aren't flaming each other, why close it? Don't want to participate? Don't post.
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AnlaShok, Captain of the Gray Hand of Fate Squadron
Sidhe-1
Wielder of the Big Heavy Hammer of Obvious Truth
"FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!"
I dont know to many states outside of the old south that are in ANY danger of being taken over by "fundies" if anything the media likes playing up the extreme right because its fun.. the truth is there are NOT that many of them nor do they have the kind of money people think they do, hell when it comes to elections they are a non friggin issue. Meanwhile we have had more VIOLENCE from the LEFT in this country in the past 40 years then we have from the religious right.
Jeeze some people need to get a grip, the US is in no danger of a christian right take over, (again unless you live in the south) everybody laughs at them anyways. However churches in general are getting cracked down on very hard in alot of areas pretty bad, they CANT donate to political campaigns CANT tell their perishners who to support and CANT do alot of other things.
Hell most of the population of the US isnt even in the south, and in all the other states, with probably the exception of Utah, "fundies" are horribly out numbered, out voted, and out spent by other political block, like the NRA! [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/wink.gif[/img].
lastly I feel you have misinterprated the first ammendemnt, it was created to protect each individual states own offical state religion from enchroachment by a federal government. NOT individuals rights, unlike the 2nd ammendment the world PEOPLE never appears anywhere in the first ammendment.. although it does via the 14th ammendment now apply to us. PRIOR to that your religious freedoms were protected by, your STATE constitution, of which almost all DID posses a clause stating that individuals had freedom of worship, even if there was a state sponsored religion.
Yes, I like certain supreme court justices am an "Original Intenter" I have the constitution next to its guide book the "Federalist Papers".
Comments
Christianity as a religion is declining, as it should.
Christianity as a faith, is still strong.
Perhaps that's finally about to change; either way, the figures still show a large section of the US population having a very definite relationship with the Christian faith.
Tyvar - I'm fairly confident when I say that opinions regarding Islam have taken a turn for the worst; the very term, post Sept 11th especially so, has connotations of fundamentalism and intolerance - against the grain of the early historical roots of the religion.
Still, I'm glad you agree that both Islam and Christianity share a great many of the same faults - history shows that both have more than enough blood on their hands - but I'm wary of all strong attachments to anything outside the bounds of rationality.
Perhaps that's all the more reason to be thankful we live in the west, with a long tradition of rational/sceptical thinking...
Mind you, I'm an atheist - I've already given faith up as a bad job.
In my community there are religious right wing nuts, but they are outnumberd by the occurance of true marxist lenninst types on the left.
I was commenting on the trend of theology in Islam which ISNT as peacefull as the media likes to write about, and what I am hopefully pointing out is that if you want to maintain that athiest point of view your going to have to maintain a strong *gasp* "containment" position against Islam, because where ever you have large islamic populations there are major attempts to impart Shariah law. Thailand (traditionaly buddhist) is now on the edge of this conflict.
When you say that kids have to have a moment of silence to pray in school, invoke the name of some god each morning, etc., you are establishing a precedent. Right now the US has a majority of christians. Your faith is in no danger here. If the fundies get their way, we'll be under the rule of christian law, or their interpretation of such. If muslims become the majority, then we'd have the precedent established that we can now be ruled by their law instead.
A dangerous path to tread, isn't it?
In US law, scientology is a religion. Do we want to fund schools based on THEIR teachings?
------------------
AnlaShok, Captain of the Gray Hand of Fate Squadron
Sidhe-1
Wielder of the Big Heavy Hammer of Obvious Truth
"FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!"
------------------
[b]whitestar90: [/b]"it would give the computer a heartattack just looking at it" -
[b]Sanfam: [/b]"And Drazi didn't like it one bit.-
[b]Mr.Bungle: [/b][i]"So that's where the forum went..."[/i]-
---
[b][i]ahhh, the good old days of HTML.[/i][/b]
Guess it give them a place to rant!
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[b]4 Thousand Throats can be cut in one night by a running Warrior[/b]
As long as people aren't flaming each other, why close it? Don't want to participate? Don't post.
------------------
AnlaShok, Captain of the Gray Hand of Fate Squadron
Sidhe-1
Wielder of the Big Heavy Hammer of Obvious Truth
"FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!"
Jeeze some people need to get a grip, the US is in no danger of a christian right take over, (again unless you live in the south) everybody laughs at them anyways. However churches in general are getting cracked down on very hard in alot of areas pretty bad, they CANT donate to political campaigns CANT tell their perishners who to support and CANT do alot of other things.
Hell most of the population of the US isnt even in the south, and in all the other states, with probably the exception of Utah, "fundies" are horribly out numbered, out voted, and out spent by other political block, like the NRA! [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/wink.gif[/img].
lastly I feel you have misinterprated the first ammendemnt, it was created to protect each individual states own offical state religion from enchroachment by a federal government. NOT individuals rights, unlike the 2nd ammendment the world PEOPLE never appears anywhere in the first ammendment.. although it does via the 14th ammendment now apply to us. PRIOR to that your religious freedoms were protected by, your STATE constitution, of which almost all DID posses a clause stating that individuals had freedom of worship, even if there was a state sponsored religion.
Yes, I like certain supreme court justices am an "Original Intenter" I have the constitution next to its guide book the "Federalist Papers".