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Inspired by another thread...
JackN
<font color=#99FF99>Lightwave Alien</font>
in Zocalo v2.0
What is your take on US Governmental control of your life, and the systematic removal of your rights as guaranteed under the US constitution?
(obviously a question for US citizen's...)
(obviously a question for US citizen's...)
Comments
I have a hard time understanding how, special interest groups or minority groups,IE, gays or right to lifers, have the right to tell me how to live my life or that I should teach my children what they think is all right!
It's BS.
It use to be the Government worked for the people not against them. It may just be the rantings of a more seasoned man but it feels as thought it is getting to the point where the government is the enemy!
Things have changed so much in the last 40 yrs. Like I have said before, someone has taken Justice and lost it in the Law!
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[b]4 Thousand Throats can be cut in one night by a running Warrior[/b]
problem is, its OUR fault. WE allow these things to pass. the way our government is set up, all we have to do is call in to our representives in congress, and tell them which way to go on something, generally, they WILL go with the majority.
(and yes, they WILL sneek bad little things inwith the good alot, or try to keep the public from hearing about whats going up for vote...)
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[b]whitestar90: [/b]"it would give the computer a heartattack just looking at it" -
[b]Sanfam: [/b]"And Drazi didn't like it one bit.-
[b]Mr.Bungle: [/b][i]"So that's where the forum went..."[/i]-
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[b][i]ahhh, the good old days of HTML.[/i][/b]
[b]yep i've noticed. i think its a load of crap. i still think bush is akin to clark.[/b][/quote]
I don't buy the arguement that Bush is the source, or that Republicans in general are the source of the problem.
Remember that we had Slick Willie in office for 8 years not so long ago, and that the democrats once controlled congress and the house for a long period of time.
No, I think the root of the problem is like what is said above, it's a lot of the citizen's fault for the way it is.
Too many people sit back now, expecting the government to solve their problems, feed and clothe them, etc, and they have grown up with the idea that these things are owed them. The institutionalization of America is a large part of the problem. It makes us all lazy, and unappreciative of things.
The best tasting Melon is the one you worked out in the field all day for. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/wink.gif[/img]
We are giving our rights over, and so we are empowering the government to rule us. This is why it is so important to stand up for those rights, regardless of how you are labeled for it. There will come a time when you can no longer freely argue virtues... Then it will be too loate to avoid oppression or revolution.
If you act now, then we don't have to reinvent the wheel and waste time and lives down the road.
My thoughts... Government should stay out of all but the most rudimentary things that government was designed for.
Right to Chose!
Right to Die!
Right to Live!
Right to Speak!
Right to Defense!
Right to Privacy!
etc...
[img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/wink.gif[/img]
By the way, we're about to lose some more rights if Homeland Security passes as it stands; here's an article from the New York Post about it, written by by William Safire, who tends towards conservatism. The topic also came up recently on Hannity & Colmes on the Fox News channel. The two rarely ever agree on anything, and they agreed on this.
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We are here to place President Grenewetzki under arrest!
Many people in the late 60's went out to "find America". I think this group found it.
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bobo
<*>
B5:ITF
Nowadays you question the Government your either a Crazy old hippie, a malcontent, a member of some nutty malisha group or a terrorist.
Hate to say it but some of us tryed. Now it is up to the younger generation to do something. My time is passed the burden now falls to you, the world is yours do something good with it.
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[b]4 Thousand Throats can be cut in one night by a running Warrior[/b]
Privacy
Protection against unlawful search and seizure
Reproductive choice
Religion
Civil rights
All of these are under fire or are about to be.
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AnlaShok, Captain of the Gray Hand of Fate Squadron
Sidhe-1
Wielder of the Big Heavy Hammer of Obvious Truth
"FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!"
Why is the US the one of the Only Industrialized nations without National Healthcare?
The HMO'S and Insurance companies are Raping the consumers!
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[b]4 Thousand Throats can be cut in one night by a running Warrior[/b]
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We are here to place President Grenewetzki under arrest!
[b]Just a question. What rights/privalages do you see being taken away.. (I am curious, but I AM NOT stating any opinion as of yet, just want to hear specifics).[/b][/quote]
Hmmmm.. I'll go out on a limb here on one of many governmental intrusions on our rights, both state and federal...
Before I make my comment, I need to properly state that I never hit any of our Foster Kids ( we have none of our own blood). Not just because it's the law here in California in the Foster care system, but I know many better ways of consequence and discipline. With that said, I [b][i]DO[/i][/b] think that there are times when corporal punishment is appropriate as a counter measure to unacceptable behavior.
I don't concider hand spanking on the buttocks to be child abuse, although the law has been twisted to view it as such. My personal feeling is that the Dr. Spock creed has ruined this country and its youth and has severly hampered parents from being able to perform their call. I do believe there is wisdom in the proverb that to Spare the Rod, Spoils the Child.
What bothers me most is the invasion of the government, even down to a nosy neighbor, into the private life of a parent or parents, and how they raise their children. The political agenda of most k through 12 educational institutions is astounding, and goesn on largley unseen behind school board doors.
As a Foster parent, I can accept the invasion, because I know what I am getting into before hand. But for the individual citizen to be scrutinized by a police state mentality in regards to raising their own offspring, just smacks of worse times down the road.
We now have a massive majority in our society that has grown up without the benefit of meaningful consequences at an early age. We are now to the point where children are raising children, so why are we suprised when they can't show meaningful responsibilty in our court rooms for their actions, and their confusion in response to our judgements?
If America ever does fall, it will be from within, and this will be a leading cause of it...
[b]Let's see....
Privacy
Protection against unlawful search and seizure
Reproductive choice
Religion
Civil rights
All of these are under fire or are about to be.
[/b][/quote]
1) Privacy: Well, that is perhaps one that I do agree with. We are having less and less privacy now in the world, but I do not believe this is an American problem. The technology (as much as I hate to say it) is the root of this one. With all the new technology out, it is hard to have privacy (internet tracking, predator spy planes, et all). This is something that will be worldwide. At this time in our country, [b]small[/b] sacrificies must be made to keep 9/11 from happening again. Now, I do think that we are overdoing things in a panic, but I think cooler heads will prevail.
2) Protection against unlawful search and seizure: Some specific examples might help. As to the terrorism thing, it is hard to tell how much quality info the government has on the terrorists in Guantanimo Bay. Again, there is some panicked knee jerk reactions, but not too many.
3) Reproductive Choice: I don't exactly know what you are refering too, but I would guess homesexuality. I see (and have not heard of) no laws saying you may not be homesexual or engage in non-heterosexual behavior. Same sex marraiges are still new territory and will need further debate. I do think homosexuals have a right to be married, as strongly as I disapprove of homosexuality (my own personal opinion, I am NOT a bigot or anything else, what you do is your own right).
4) Religion. Again, more specific examples. I see no laws impeding (or promoting) religious belief.
5) Civil Rights. What do you mean? I dont see anyone saying that blacks/females/Green Ardvarks shouldnt have equal rights.
In conclusion, I can not agree/disagree wiht any of your points without some specifics. I am fairly content with what we have here in America, and I believe that our country is for the majority good. Our politicians are corrupt (for the most part) but I plan to do something about that.
To JackN. Both my parents have been history teachers (my father still is), I am a high school student, and my mother is a high school counsilor. My grandparents were both teachers, so my family is filled with educators. Some of the educational framework is biased toward certain things, but it is the right and responsibility of teachers to do more than the framework (and therin fill in gaps and negate other pointy spots). Yes, I do believe that children need to recieve proper punishment and I do think that spankings and other consequences are [b]necissary[/b] for children (especially at pivotal times in life). We must be able to find a happy medium between harsh child abuse laws and a lack thereof.
Unfortunately, it is damn near imposible to tell the difference between mild cases of child abuse and traditional spankings. The laws should be changed. It is, in the end, the parents responsibility to raise children. No teacher in the classroom has the ability to raise a child. The problem now is that parents EXPECT the school to take care of their kids, raise them, and make everything right. A growing group of parents do not take parenting seriously. I do not know the solution to this, but I do know that it must be fixed. However, how does this have to do with the American government? [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
One last thing. Free Public health care will never work. It would bankrupt our contry. Are we not supposed to teach responsibility? If so, how does giving something to you for absolutely free without any payment needed responible? Isn't that just teaching people that there is no reason to be responisble, when everything is given to you? HMO's are corrupt and need to change, but public health care is not the right way. When I have more time, perhaps I will go into my views on public health care more clearly and precisely.
EDIT: This might be my longest post ever.. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/biggrin.gif[/img]
[This message has been edited by rhett (edited 11-18-2002).]
[b]However, what does this have to do with the American government? [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
[/b][/quote]
In so much that the laws against corporal punishment are enforced by government agencies, and that people like me are required to report "spankings" as child abuse.
It's not just the corporal punishment issue though, my beef is that government butts in to way too many parenting issues. Do you know know what kind of power CPS has in this country? How about here in California? I'm not saying they are evil, but it's way too powerful, and mismanagement and irresponsibility abound in this state for one.
Regular parents live in fear of the "BIG" agency taking their kids away at the drop of a hat... I'm happy to be their for the children in legitimate cases, but this is way to police state like to me...
anyway, enough said... [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/wink.gif[/img]
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We are here to place President Grenewetzki under arrest!
[b]Also the fact that the Justice system has gone to the "How Much You Can Afford System"
Why is the US the one of the Only Industrialized nations without National Healthcare?
The HMO'S and Insurance companies are Raping the consumers!
[/b][/quote]
And those afformentioned national healthcare plans are beginning to show strain, Seriously Argone, give it 10 years and I think you will be glad that we didnt follow Europe as a model.
The legal system thing your right though, and it works both ways, you would be amazed how much of the money in medical care ends up in the hands of lawyers.
[b] In so much that the laws against corporal punishment are enforced by government agencies, and that people like me are required to report "spankings" as child abuse.
It's not just the corporal punishment issue though, my beef is that government butts in to way too many parenting issues. Do you know know what kind of power CPS has in this country? How about here in California? I'm not saying they are evil, but it's way too powerful, and mismanagement and irresponsibility abound in this state for one.
Regular parents live in fear of the "BIG" agency taking their kids away at the drop of a hat... I'm happy to be their for the children in legitimate cases, but this is way to police state like to me...
anyway, enough said... [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/wink.gif[/img]
[/b][/quote]
I tend to agree that the CPS has too much power, especially in CA (that is where I live). It is too easy for someone to say "I've been abused" and muck up their parents lives. However, CPS has become an essential part of life, anywhere. Without it, what would happen to the really abused kids? But in the same manner, how do you tell the difference between serious abuse and "my mommy spanked me" type crap? The system needs fixing, it just won't be easy (but then again, what is).
As to abortion, I am pro life (i.e. I do not support abortion as a form of birth control) in my personal beliefs, HOWEVER I am not "pro life". What do I mean? Well, I mean that you have the right to get an abortion if that is what you want. I have no right to tell you not to. However, everything gets really confusing when one parent wants to keep the child and the other doesnt, or the parents don't want their 16 year old to have a kid but she wants it (or vice versa). So, you should have every right to do what you wish, but I fear a time when the solution to accidental pregnancy is no more than "Oh well, just get an abortion." Simple things like abstinence and protection should be paramount. Again, we are back at the topic of proper responsibility and consequences for your actions. I fear a world where getting pregnant on accident (as a teen,myself being one, or whatever other circumstances) is no more than a fairly simple, low pain surgery (this being in the future when better techniques with lower harm are discovered).
I am glad that we can have a civil discusion here. Congratulations to everyone for being mature... [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
Apathy and indifference will destroy this country far more quickly and certainly than a thousand Osama bin Ladens ever could.
[b]Yea, well we've got shows like 'judging amy' glorifying the meddling CPS types. I just about threw a book at the TV the first time I watched it.[/b][/quote]
Well Konrad, all I can say is that my wife and I live in the REAL world of Foster care. I really don't care about fiction portrayed on TV.
That people watch TV and believe that it is how the Real World operates only serves to show their lack of intelligence.
My point is not to bang on CPS or their workers, but the simple fact is that they are indeed too powerful, and you know what happens when there is power to be had.
Here in California (a place I can speak for with some authority) the situation is bad. Tulare county, some two hours South of me has had SERIOUS issues with their operations.
It needs fixing... period...
[This message has been edited by JackN (edited 11-20-2002).]
I should add that my experience with social workers was when my family was trying to take care of an elderly dementia suffering family member. The attitude and aura that those people extruded was beyond tolerable. Just a smug noisiness, and general superiority complex. They were never there to help, never offered productive advice or lifted a finger, they were only there to harass. I felt that way and they never once complained about us officially beyond an off hand comment, I can only imagine how it is for someone who is put into 'the process.'
[My note to everyone is that it might be nice to take care of an elderly parent, but the strains it will put on your immediate family and marriage is not worth it, especially one that suffers from mental disorders.]
[This message has been edited by Konrad (edited 11-21-2002).]