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Firstones as a body corporate
shadow boxer
The Finger Painter & Master Ranter
in Babylon 5
What needs to be done for Firstones to survive, and to perhaps even turn ITF into the proverbial Phoenix is for Firstones to become a legal and fiscal entity....
I have absolutely no idea what the US laws are for the formation of clubs and associations....
but it should be done... elected secretaries, president etc etc etc... formalise this loose bunch into a real force...
Nothing makes the greater public and the corporate community take note of an organizations wishes when there are 1000's of paid up members... the Ulysses club is a good example... they have perhaps different goals... but the example still stands...
Somebody of the appropriate age needs to regsiter, legalise etc "The Firstones Association"
and that person should be a US citizen.... other chapters in other countries can follow...
This is where it gets sticky.... no more adlib democracy.... we have to nominate and elect all the reps.... and pay membership fees....
It sucks in that way but... the bonuses are too hard to ignore...
Firstones as a legal club can suddenly do things like open bank accounts... sell badges, T shirts, merchandise etc... and RAISE SOME MONEY....
its amazing what a little lucre with lubricate....
it pays for bandwidth for the site... pays for some people to actually DO something about the game rather than just flap thier lips about it...
Biggles and I can do the ANZAC chapter... I'm sure Freeze and co will do the same.... so you yanks... GET you shite together....
I have absolutely no idea what the US laws are for the formation of clubs and associations....
but it should be done... elected secretaries, president etc etc etc... formalise this loose bunch into a real force...
Nothing makes the greater public and the corporate community take note of an organizations wishes when there are 1000's of paid up members... the Ulysses club is a good example... they have perhaps different goals... but the example still stands...
Somebody of the appropriate age needs to regsiter, legalise etc "The Firstones Association"
and that person should be a US citizen.... other chapters in other countries can follow...
This is where it gets sticky.... no more adlib democracy.... we have to nominate and elect all the reps.... and pay membership fees....
It sucks in that way but... the bonuses are too hard to ignore...
Firstones as a legal club can suddenly do things like open bank accounts... sell badges, T shirts, merchandise etc... and RAISE SOME MONEY....
its amazing what a little lucre with lubricate....
it pays for bandwidth for the site... pays for some people to actually DO something about the game rather than just flap thier lips about it...
Biggles and I can do the ANZAC chapter... I'm sure Freeze and co will do the same.... so you yanks... GET you shite together....
Comments
think about some basic numbers.... a typical Firstone lets say...
one membership fee of $20 US
one Tshirt $20 US
one lapel badge $ 7.50 US
the dividends from postage and handling and other gear brings it up to Fifty bucks...
50 x 1000members ( remove smurfs,undedicated,dirt poor etc ) =
FIFTY GRAND.... now that is a start....
I consider myself a typical FirstOne, and when it comes to e-mail campaigns, petitions and open letters to the press and everyone else involved, hey fine, I'm with you.
--But if I would have to start paying union fees or some sort just to be noted as a member of an instance protected and recognized by the US laws, I'd have to reconsider. --And that consideration would most probably lead me into taking the next available shuttle to the Rim.
T-shirts and other merchandise I can understand. Throwing your money in for a few bureaucrats' sake I don't.
I don't know if I'm the only one thinking this way, but keep the opinions coming, let's see what people think of this, [i]mmkay[/i]?
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Life is full of surprises. The ones reserved for me usually come wearing brass knuckles.
[This message has been edited by Data Crystal (edited 07-23-2001).]
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[b]Required reading: [url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
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[b]Never start a fight. But always finish it.[/b]
Finnish techno-geek, friend of all aardvarks
Moderator at Babylon 5: Into the Fire Finland message boards
#b5itf-finland (IRCnet) channel operator
kinda frightening isnt it.... putting your nuts on the line.... fiscally as well as typin away like a trained monkey...
None of the figures I've offered up are fixed in any way shape or form... the constitution of a club is written by its inaugural members... and to do that you have to atleast have a peppercorn membership fee.... it may only have to be $2.50.... but the idea is to raise some money so we can actually DO something... rather than sit here and typographically masturbate. If none of you have the cajones then I'll build a local club here in AU.... and you can join if you want to.... but its kinda hollow.. and it also has the potential to divide the community which is NOT what I want.
It's all very well to dribble on about Aardvarks and Vorklifts and just generally have a good time... but it gets us nowhere... the world will not recognise us until we 'play the game', kowtow in part atleast to "Allmightydolla" and his seraphim "Corporate" and "Business"...
I myself hate corporate culture, western values in terms of money. It would be lovely for us to be recognised and accepted as we are, but that simply wont happen. Its all very cool to be in a clique... not paying any dues to anyone... not falling prey to the money driven bastards. It is an unfortunate part of living, and at 28 I still havent fully accepted it... much to my own detriment.
Right now we are just a bunch of juveniles hanging around the mall... and all we'll get is shooed away from the customers...
While having a 2500 member BB is great ammo for any new ITF type venture... a 2500 member strong association gets listened to, "they" can no longer ignore us with any kind of security... we may just use some of our collective resources to run ad campaigns or start playing all sorts of nasty Guerilla PR schemes and "they" have to do something to make us go away.
If we managed to kick up enough of a stink Seirra/Havas may have to release the ITF IP "as and act of goodwill"... (translation - if we dont do something these pricks will ruin our corporate image ). This is a militant way... we may be able to use much more subtle avenues and not ruffle as many feathers... let them distribute it after we finish it.... whatever.... but NONE of this will happen until we bite the freakin bullet !
It also means I can't do a friggin damned thing about making T shirts and all that jazz... without the framework inside the US its next to impossible... We have to start somewhere and as much as I'd like to drag you all kicking and screaming into it, I'm not gonna.. cos I don't want to do shit for a bunch of wannabes...
In a really bitter piece of irony... the developers laying down thier swords is a blessing. There is no longer any potential resurection in the pipeline and therefore no impediment to us becoming vocal and aggressive in attaining our goal. I'm not condoning a Molotov through Seirra HQ... or even a flame campaign via email... but we can certainly step up our progress.
We can organise, recruit and grow if we have some formal structure. For fuc k s sake we could even print some full colour, exceptionally well designed letterhead and write some really, really formal letters to Venture Capitalists, to Game Publishers, to Business Incubators and both corporate and governmental funding agencies... et al...
Just to whet your whistle folks... and perhaps prematurely... but I'm sick of tooling around...
I've been talking to a local Business Incubator group... and the guy who may just write me a cheque for $400K AU was more than willing to listen to what I had to say about ITF and building a bloody studio here to house the Vorlons in whilst they finish their f ucking Opus.
Right now it's all very preliminary, it's daunting, scary and one hell of a big thing to assess let alone do. The numbers involved are huge to a mere mortal like me... take a moment to think about it.... what would be the 'fire sale' price of two years development on a game ? Any rough guess will put you in the ballpark of six figures US. A licence from WB ? If you were a Sci-fi executive... how much would you pay for a series of B5 ? So what is an Interactive licence worth, big bikkies.. and I haven't even begun to count the cost of 'Margarita mix and Encounter Suit Polish' and twenty other staff... plus a few 486's to actually do the game making on...
I'm still here though. Still trying. I'm employing what skills I have towards this goal.
It's working. But only just and it's like facing off a Sharlin in my 'Fury.
Imagine if I had some backup...
a wingman or two...
let alone the Vorlon Planet Killer that Firstones could very well represent.
In short :
Fellas,
Pull you f ucking fingers out....
I also do not believe firstones.com should become a corporate entity. That just seems bad in some way. You could, if you wanted to, create a company which could be affiliated to firstones.com and from there do something, though.
Plus I also agree with Sanfam that a huge number of people would not be allowed to join for various reasons: no credit card, restricted by parents, can't afford to, etc.
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[b]Required reading: [url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
but one always lives in hope.
[img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
Now then, all that said....the real reason a corporation is a good idea is limited liability. If WB or anyone else desides to "come after" anyone, it is the Corporation, not the induvidual. That means if wose comes to worse, and say they get a court judgement on copyright infringement, the Corporation is the one responsible for the bill. And if it can't pay? It folds. End of story, file a new one under a different name. What you (I say you, because although I am now a member of the board, I just jumped here from Great Wars) is very dangerous right now.
You might also think about filing as a non-profit corporation. You can still raise money, but the money goes to the corporations expenses only. ie, you don't get rich, but you may just get some things done. I am in Texas right now, and having overseas officers won't fly under state law. But I am moving in March, so if this is something you want to do, I may be able to help then.
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"Have we sent the 'Don't shoot us we're pathetic' transmission yet?" Farscape
Imagine accidentally bumping into someone in the street because you were day-dreaming about Starfuries, you apologise (or in England they apologise [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img] ) and nothing more comes of it.
Imagine the same scenario, but with both people in cars. Recrimination, road rage, courts, police, (and in England "Claims Direct" [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img] ). The difference is simple - money.
As Samfam said, setup your own company and Firstones may support it, but don't destroy Firstones. We're too young to die...
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possibly futile, but very human.
Cherio.
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Catapvltam habeo. Nisi pecvniam omnem mihi dabis, ad capvt tvvm saxvm immane mittam.
Mater tva criceta fvit, et pater tvo redolvit bacarvm sambvcvs.
I have moved away from Firstones, but i come back every now and then ot check up on news. I still beleive in what you are trying to do, and a $20 fee is well worth it if it will help in any way whatsoever.
-problem of note, according to US law, people under the age of 18 more then likely (I'm a bit vague on this) may not be eligible as members because they are not considered "adults". This will prevent a number of people here from actually being members. Though I think putting some actual weight behind this organiziation of ours is a GOOD thing, I do not think that playing coorperate ball is a good thing. Namely because we'll loose. If we centralize ourselves that makes our leaders just as much targets for sierra/havas as they are for us. If we start a PR smear campaign, they very well could sue our organization, in which case the leaders get shafted. With being the decentralized "mob" that we are. All they can do is say "hey, stop that", but really can't go after any one person in particular. Bottom line, if we try to play the cooperate game, we'll lose....bad
put it this way... there are countless Star Trek organizations... and they do allright...
do we not engender the same sort of passion ? I think so.
Well it seems that there isnt anyone within Firstones who can build a stateside organization ( not-for-profit was my intention from the outset). So be it. I'll build an Aussie one. From there we can add to it... and a US chapter can follow I guess. Both will be completely separate entities to these hallowed halls then... hopefully there will be some cross pollenation between it all.
I hope I can set it up and let it run under someone elses stewardship in the future.. if things go as I plan I will have to give up the reins pretty quickly as it would very soon become a potential conflict of interest if I manage to build a Studio and swing some version of ITF.
AUSSIE FIRSTONES with some genuine commitment.. please contact me.
ASAP
[This message has been edited by shadow boxer (edited 07-24-2001).]
[b]Wow this has been my first post here in over a year - suprised my account is still here.[/b][/quote]
Accounts are never deleted. That would be outright wrong.
The idea is noble. The method is wrong.
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[b]Required reading: [url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
I think this is a very good idea and that it shouldn't be dismissed without giving it some serious thought and consideration.
Cherio.
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Catapvltam habeo. Nisi pecvniam omnem mihi dabis, ad capvt tvvm saxvm immane mittam.
Mater tva criceta fvit, et pater tvo redolvit bacarvm sambvcvs.
[This message has been edited by Shuup Nick (edited 07-24-2001).]
That IS my solution shuup nick. Has been my solution from the start.
[This message has been edited by Melkor (edited 07-25-2001).]
Yeah we should stay as we are, and yes we are still very strong.. our numbers are still growing and we haven't been forgotten!
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'The future is all around us' G'kar
'I have no surviving enemies! None what so ever!' Galen
Visit my B5 site at: [url="http://www.nialb5.com"]B5 site[/url].
if lets say we actually form a formal club.... we are likely to have one bank account.. in which is a pittance.... they take us to court on lets say a libel suit or something.... thier lawyers would work for about five seconds before the cost of suing would outweigh any gains theu make... and we simply grow another head.... and keep going...
this is all provided we are silly enough to actually screw up and say the wrong thing.... or do something stupid to which we can be linked....
I'd like to see any lawyer prove that one persons actions may be linked to a club like this may be...
the likely hood of anyone facing anymore than a wrist slap is extremely tiny....
the benefits of clubmanship far outweigh the possible detractions....
Sector 14 t-shirts.
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[b]Required reading: [url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
The Balance provides. The Balance protects.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
[b]I also have the skills and facilities to make basically every sort of club type merchandise....[/b][/quote]
If you start charging for anything and you use a name, image or any property of Babylon 5, remember to look for a license or hope someone at WB isn't in a bad mood. Do people remember the video site WB shut down and the unlicensed items JMS made sure were...removed from distribution...?