WHY: That's what I gathered. Although I'm a bit distressed about the possibility that Lucas will do another 10-year leap into the future in Episode 3, so that they can skip the whole Clone War in the opening text and just explain what has happened. So it's like seeing the Prologue and the Epilogue to the clone war, but miss it in itself.
samuelk: I meant acting, as in itself, not waving a gun in front of a bluescreen and trying to make a good 'fit' into a CGI scene... Try "Beautiful Girls" or "Leon" for kickers... she can do a LOT. The SW universe probably just can't offer the possibilities for "deep" characters. Or -more reasonably-at least Lucas seems to have trouble handling it.
Rick: Well, hello. That explains it. Although even if Emperor P makes an order, it doesn't strike me as reasonable that he'll just use some bounty hunter as the model... why not use the bounty hunter to collect some blood from a decent jedi in a random hit.? Or perhaps the cloners needed the whole character? Hmm...
JackN: That could be. It's also supported in Ep 1 when Ani says that "I'll make sure mom doesn't sell you or anything..." Yep, that's the ticket. The obnoxious brit was the mother's helper.
------------------
[i]"It does not require an artist to wield the blade that finds itself struck through the heart of an opponent. It takes a true artist to present the sword and allow the man to strike himself against it."[/i]
[quote]Originally posted by Lord QDaan:
[b]We've seen only simple exterior schematics in E2, as far as I can see. The interior, the power systems, and the superlaser especially are not shown to be designed and probably required time to work on that leaves the station nowhere near ready to begin construction by E3.[/b][/quote]
The Death Star holo in the movie was transparent, and I saw the big cone opening up to the superlaser, as well as the reactor. Both matched up with schmatics I've seen. So it wasn't a simple exterior model at all.
Training a Jedi takes a long time and specialized skills. Training a soldier requires less time and ability.
If you are going to clone someone without having to worry about teaching them Force skills, why not use a person who is able to go toe-to-toe with a Jedi and at least come out even, if not victorious. Jango Fett fit that bill quite nicely. If not for the tracking device Obi-Wan put on Slave I, he'd have gotten away clean. How many other non-Force users could say the same?
------------------
AnlaShok, Captain of the Gray Hand of Fate Squadron
Sidhe-1
Wielder of the Big Heavy Hammer of Obvious Truth
"FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!"
[quote]Originally posted by Data Crystal:
[b][*] Luke's soon-to-be-family-in-progress never said anything even when Anakin robbed them of their droid of which they paid good money for. (C3-PO)[/b][/quote]
Ehh, 3P0 was Anakin's to begin with. Looks like SOMEONE wasn't paying attention in EP1. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
------------------
[url="http://www.3dap.com/hlp"][b]Hard Light Productions[/b][/url] - [i]Our last best hope for Freespace[/i]
"Isn't the universe a wonderful place? I wouldn't want to live anywhere else! Love to stay! Can't! Have to go. Kiss kiss, love love! Bye!" - G'Kar
[quote]The Death Star holo in the movie was transparent, and I saw the big cone opening up to the superlaser, as well as the reactor. Both matched up with schmatics I've seen. So it wasn't a simple exterior model at all.[/quote]
I'd need to have an image to study to be sure. But throwing in a couple of placeholder objects that represent what is expected to be a major part of the design is no where near having a finished design. That they are very similar (no way you can prove identical at that scale) just means that they had some idea of what the final parts would be like, which is reasonable.
So they knew it would have a reactor of such-and-such a size, and it would most likely have such-and-such a general design. So what? Specifics must be handled.
[quote]Originally posted by Lord QDaan:
[b] I'd need to have an image to study to be sure. But throwing in a couple of placeholder objects that represent what is expected to be a major part of the design is no where near having a finished design. That they are very similar (no way you can prove identical at that scale) just means that they had some idea of what the final parts would be like, which is reasonable.
So they knew it would have a reactor of such-and-such a size, and it would most likely have such-and-such a general design. So what? Specifics must be handled.[/b][/quote]
Another interesting thing, if you look closely, the Death Star in the holo's has protrusions sticking out. Interesting...
[quote]Originally posted by David of Mac:
[b]The Only Two thing brings a whole new demision to TESB and ROTJ and the Emporer and Vader's attempt to turn Luke. They were each planning to off the other, Palpatine so he could get a new apprintice, and Vader so he could be the master. So all that while their trying to get Luke to kill the other one.
It's supported by Vader's line in TESB. "Join me, Luke, and together we can destroy the Emporer and rule the galaxy as father and son."
The only thing agenst it is that Vader defends the Emporer in ROTJ when Luke attacks. My view on this is that Palpatine took temporary control of Vader, just long enough to block Luke's slice. This, I feel, is supported by his evil laugh when Vader and Luke's sabres cross two inchs from his nose.[/b][/quote]
Vader defended the Emperor because he felt that Luke wasnt angry enough to turn completly over to the Dark Side, he wanted Luke to kill the Emperor without the risk of turning back to the light.
Also, Rick is right, the Sith are an ancient cult that began when a group of Jedi turned to the darkside, fled from the republic and enslaved an insect like race called the Sith (which is why they are called Sith Lords). They have developed their own methods of using the force and training apprentices. The reason there are only 2 Sith Lords is after the last Jedi-Sith war, Darth Bane realised the problem was all the Sith Lords faught each other too much, so he decided that there would only be a master and an apprentice.
A Dark Jedi is just a Jedi/Force user who has turned to the Dark Side.
Worf
------------------
Captain Gideon: I thought you said you dont hold a grudge?
Galen: I dont, I have no surviving enemies...at all
Random ChaosActually Carefully-selected Order in disguise
[quote]Originally posted by Rick:
[b] Huge difference between a Sith and a Dark Jedi. One implies a corrupted light force user; the other implies a master of the dark side of The Force.[/b][/quote]
Sith refers to those who follow the teaching of the Sith. The last major Sith was 3000 years before Ep1 who lead the Sith Wars (his name was Exar Kun). The Sith is an ancient teaching of the use of the Dark Side of the Force but includes with it methods for government and corruption. Remember that Palpatine is a Dark Lord of the Sith. Darth Vader was a Dark Lord of the Sith. Darth Maul was a Dark Lord of the Sith. However, it is never stated that Dooku is such a dark lord. It is quite possible for there to be Dark Jedi (those that Use the dark side) not connected to Sith. It is ALSO possible to have more then one Sith Master, though they would quickly try to kill each other off, and each master can have 1 pupil.
Dark Jedi refers to those that follow the dark side of the force (fear, anger, hatred), but not those that have studied Sith teachings. Sith can conviently use Dark Jedi and forget that they might know some Sith teachings until they feel they need to define their true pupil.
LightNZ: I think you hit the nail on the head there...
Does Ulic Quel Droma exist in cannon terms, or is he just Extended Universe ?
and I don't think Darth Maul was a sith master, being a good sabre-fighter does not a jedi make (this goes back to a REALLY old discussion on why he didn't explode like Palpatine in ROTJ).
[quote]Originally posted by Random Chaos:
[b]However, it is never stated that Dooku is such a dark lord. It is quite possible for there to be Dark Jedi (those that Use the dark side) not connected to Sith.[/b][/quote]
I think the title "Darth" is a Sith thing, and remember, he was also Darth Tyrannus.
Definitely my biggest contribution...... [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
Biggles<font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
My congratulations. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
If there are more than two dark jedi, how come we only ever see two alive in one movie? Surely, they'd be able to put at least a small force together at some point?
------------------
[b][url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Required reading[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
[quote]Originally posted by Biggles:
[b]My congratulations. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
If there are more than two dark jedi, how come we only ever see two alive in one movie? Surely, they'd be able to put at least a small force together at some point?
[/b][/quote]
See... That's the thing... In the games, which I'm not sure how canon it is...
In Dark Forces II - Jedi Knight, there is a whole group of them working with Jerec...
In Jedi Knight II - Jedi Outcast you have all kinds of Reborns and Shadow Troopers... as well as Tavion and Desan (SP?)...
With all the other foreshadowing and humerous cracks from other elements like Obi Wan's comment about "why do I get the feeling you'll be the death of me" to Anikin, I totally missed the one about Anikins future condition during the love scene at the fireplace...
In regards to Amidala, he says "I can't breath..." hahahahahahaha [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/biggrin.gif[/img]
Biggles<font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
Yeah I just realised that about DF2 last night actually. So I guess that even though it isn't cannon, they are consistent with how dark jedi should work.
------------------
[b][url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Required reading[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
I'm still in love with some of those city scenes. Really quite fun. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
Biggles<font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
The city scenes are beautiful. There must be millions if not billions of polygons in some of those shots.
------------------
[b][url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Required reading[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
Ive just downloaded it (seen it in the cinema) and it is a good film, but there are times when I feel like ''missing'' out CD2, they love bits are painful to watch!
I didnt see any spikes on the death star though [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
Just saw the movie this weekend...much, much better than Ep 1. A couple things I noticed, that I don't think have been pointed out...
I new it...Jar Jar is the down fall of the Republic!!! I think its kinda funny that Mr. Binks is the delegate to propose emergency powers be given to Palapatine. This event will eventually lead to the disbanding of the Senate and the Republic.
Also Palapatine is playing both ends against the middle...really he seems to be in control of both sides of the conflict. It is implied that he indirectly ordered the construction of the clones, while at the same time driving the other groups (such as the trade federation) away from the republic. All this to eventually control the enter Empire.
I really did enjoy that wonderful turn of events. Jar Jar really was the end of the old republic. Punishment was served.
But see, this is how Jar Jar should have been handled in Episode 1. Subtle actions, a silent presence, but a strong impact.
Jar Jar only got some eight minutes of air time, and all but two of those minutes were great!
Gee, I wonder how Jar-Jar was persuaded to make the motion....
------------------
AnlaShok, Captain of the Gray Hand of Fate Squadron
Sidhe-1
Wielder of the Big Heavy Hammer of Obvious Truth
"FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!"
Freejack's list of cool things from ep. 2 (in no particular order):
1) Beam Weapons: Those artillery pieces that brought down one of the Trade Guild ships were awesome
2) The use of Art Deco on Corissant and elsewhere in the movie
3) Senator Amidala's Ship at the beginning of the movie. That has to be one of the coolest (other than the Falcon), sleekest ships seen in any SW movie, of coarse they promptly blew it up.
4) Natalie Portman in a skin-tight uniform (and/or a backless dress).
[EDIT] One more to add...the sound from the siesmic charge...has to be one of the coolest sounds fx I 've heard in a theater. On a side note: those charges wouldn't actually work in space due to the lack of a medium for the waves to travel through.
[This message has been edited by Freejack (edited 05-29-2002).]
Random ChaosActually Carefully-selected Order in disguise
[quote]Originally posted by AnlaShok:
[b]The Force has great influence on the weak minded.
Gee, I wonder how Jar-Jar was persuaded to make the motion....
[/b][/quote]
ROFL!!!!
I never thought of that [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
Biggles<font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
The seismic charge sound was awesome, especially on a top-of-the-line sound system. I love the way the initial explosion is silent, but then you get the sound of the charge.
------------------
[b][url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Required reading[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
Comments
samuelk: I meant acting, as in itself, not waving a gun in front of a bluescreen and trying to make a good 'fit' into a CGI scene... Try "Beautiful Girls" or "Leon" for kickers... she can do a LOT. The SW universe probably just can't offer the possibilities for "deep" characters. Or -more reasonably-at least Lucas seems to have trouble handling it.
Rick: Well, hello. That explains it. Although even if Emperor P makes an order, it doesn't strike me as reasonable that he'll just use some bounty hunter as the model... why not use the bounty hunter to collect some blood from a decent jedi in a random hit.? Or perhaps the cloners needed the whole character? Hmm...
JackN: That could be. It's also supported in Ep 1 when Ani says that "I'll make sure mom doesn't sell you or anything..." Yep, that's the ticket. The obnoxious brit was the mother's helper.
------------------
[i]"It does not require an artist to wield the blade that finds itself struck through the heart of an opponent. It takes a true artist to present the sword and allow the man to strike himself against it."[/i]
[b]We've seen only simple exterior schematics in E2, as far as I can see. The interior, the power systems, and the superlaser especially are not shown to be designed and probably required time to work on that leaves the station nowhere near ready to begin construction by E3.[/b][/quote]
The Death Star holo in the movie was transparent, and I saw the big cone opening up to the superlaser, as well as the reactor. Both matched up with schmatics I've seen. So it wasn't a simple exterior model at all.
If you are going to clone someone without having to worry about teaching them Force skills, why not use a person who is able to go toe-to-toe with a Jedi and at least come out even, if not victorious. Jango Fett fit that bill quite nicely. If not for the tracking device Obi-Wan put on Slave I, he'd have gotten away clean. How many other non-Force users could say the same?
------------------
AnlaShok, Captain of the Gray Hand of Fate Squadron
Sidhe-1
Wielder of the Big Heavy Hammer of Obvious Truth
"FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!"
[b][*] Luke's soon-to-be-family-in-progress never said anything even when Anakin robbed them of their droid of which they paid good money for. (C3-PO)[/b][/quote]
Ehh, 3P0 was Anakin's to begin with. Looks like SOMEONE wasn't paying attention in EP1. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
------------------
[url="http://www.3dap.com/hlp"][b]Hard Light Productions[/b][/url] - [i]Our last best hope for Freespace[/i]
"Isn't the universe a wonderful place? I wouldn't want to live anywhere else! Love to stay! Can't! Have to go. Kiss kiss, love love! Bye!" - G'Kar
I'd need to have an image to study to be sure. But throwing in a couple of placeholder objects that represent what is expected to be a major part of the design is no where near having a finished design. That they are very similar (no way you can prove identical at that scale) just means that they had some idea of what the final parts would be like, which is reasonable.
So they knew it would have a reactor of such-and-such a size, and it would most likely have such-and-such a general design. So what? Specifics must be handled.
[b] I'd need to have an image to study to be sure. But throwing in a couple of placeholder objects that represent what is expected to be a major part of the design is no where near having a finished design. That they are very similar (no way you can prove identical at that scale) just means that they had some idea of what the final parts would be like, which is reasonable.
So they knew it would have a reactor of such-and-such a size, and it would most likely have such-and-such a general design. So what? Specifics must be handled.[/b][/quote]
Another interesting thing, if you look closely, the Death Star in the holo's has protrusions sticking out. Interesting...
[b]The Only Two thing brings a whole new demision to TESB and ROTJ and the Emporer and Vader's attempt to turn Luke. They were each planning to off the other, Palpatine so he could get a new apprintice, and Vader so he could be the master. So all that while their trying to get Luke to kill the other one.
It's supported by Vader's line in TESB. "Join me, Luke, and together we can destroy the Emporer and rule the galaxy as father and son."
The only thing agenst it is that Vader defends the Emporer in ROTJ when Luke attacks. My view on this is that Palpatine took temporary control of Vader, just long enough to block Luke's slice. This, I feel, is supported by his evil laugh when Vader and Luke's sabres cross two inchs from his nose.[/b][/quote]
Vader defended the Emperor because he felt that Luke wasnt angry enough to turn completly over to the Dark Side, he wanted Luke to kill the Emperor without the risk of turning back to the light.
Also, Rick is right, the Sith are an ancient cult that began when a group of Jedi turned to the darkside, fled from the republic and enslaved an insect like race called the Sith (which is why they are called Sith Lords). They have developed their own methods of using the force and training apprentices. The reason there are only 2 Sith Lords is after the last Jedi-Sith war, Darth Bane realised the problem was all the Sith Lords faught each other too much, so he decided that there would only be a master and an apprentice.
A Dark Jedi is just a Jedi/Force user who has turned to the Dark Side.
Worf
------------------
Captain Gideon: I thought you said you dont hold a grudge?
Galen: I dont, I have no surviving enemies...at all
Ave Primo-Populi (Hail the Firstones)
it was "you believe it's this...boy?"
But hey, it's prophecy, they are allowed to get it wrong
[img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
[b]what kind of protrusions? does anyone have a pic?[/b][/quote]
I'll try and grab one tonight and post it this evening after work...
[img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/wink.gif[/img]
[b] Huge difference between a Sith and a Dark Jedi. One implies a corrupted light force user; the other implies a master of the dark side of The Force.[/b][/quote]
Sith refers to those who follow the teaching of the Sith. The last major Sith was 3000 years before Ep1 who lead the Sith Wars (his name was Exar Kun). The Sith is an ancient teaching of the use of the Dark Side of the Force but includes with it methods for government and corruption. Remember that Palpatine is a Dark Lord of the Sith. Darth Vader was a Dark Lord of the Sith. Darth Maul was a Dark Lord of the Sith. However, it is never stated that Dooku is such a dark lord. It is quite possible for there to be Dark Jedi (those that Use the dark side) not connected to Sith. It is ALSO possible to have more then one Sith Master, though they would quickly try to kill each other off, and each master can have 1 pupil.
Dark Jedi refers to those that follow the dark side of the force (fear, anger, hatred), but not those that have studied Sith teachings. Sith can conviently use Dark Jedi and forget that they might know some Sith teachings until they feel they need to define their true pupil.
--RC
Does Ulic Quel Droma exist in cannon terms, or is he just Extended Universe ?
and I don't think Darth Maul was a sith master, being a good sabre-fighter does not a jedi make (this goes back to a REALLY old discussion on why he didn't explode like Palpatine in ROTJ).
[b]However, it is never stated that Dooku is such a dark lord. It is quite possible for there to be Dark Jedi (those that Use the dark side) not connected to Sith.[/b][/quote]
I think the title "Darth" is a Sith thing, and remember, he was also Darth Tyrannus.
Definitely my biggest contribution...... [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
If there are more than two dark jedi, how come we only ever see two alive in one movie? Surely, they'd be able to put at least a small force together at some point?
------------------
[b][url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Required reading[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
[b]My congratulations. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
If there are more than two dark jedi, how come we only ever see two alive in one movie? Surely, they'd be able to put at least a small force together at some point?
[/b][/quote]
See... That's the thing... In the games, which I'm not sure how canon it is...
In Dark Forces II - Jedi Knight, there is a whole group of them working with Jerec...
In Jedi Knight II - Jedi Outcast you have all kinds of Reborns and Shadow Troopers... as well as Tavion and Desan (SP?)...
But they are all Dark Jedi, noth Sith...
So it seems consistent ...
[img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/biggrin.gif[/img]
With all the other foreshadowing and humerous cracks from other elements like Obi Wan's comment about "why do I get the feeling you'll be the death of me" to Anikin, I totally missed the one about Anikins future condition during the love scene at the fireplace...
In regards to Amidala, he says "I can't breath..." hahahahahahaha [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/biggrin.gif[/img]
------------------
[b][url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Required reading[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
I'm still in love with some of those city scenes. Really quite fun. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
------------------
[b][url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Required reading[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras
[b] See... That's the thing... In the games, which I'm not sure how canon it is...
In Dark Forces II - Jedi Knight, there is a whole group of them working with Jerec...
In Jedi Knight II - Jedi Outcast you have all kinds of Reborns and Shadow Troopers... as well as Tavion and Desan (SP?)...
But they are all Dark Jedi, noth Sith...
So it seems consistent ...[/b][/quote]
Then there's the shadow academy that Anakin, Jacen, and Jania "visited"...
------------------
[url="http://www.3dap.com/hlp"][b]Hard Light Productions[/b][/url] - [i]Our last best hope for Freespace[/i]
"Isn't the universe a wonderful place? I wouldn't want to live anywhere else! Love to stay! Can't! Have to go. Kiss kiss, love love! Bye!" - G'Kar
I didnt see any spikes on the death star though [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
I new it...Jar Jar is the down fall of the Republic!!! I think its kinda funny that Mr. Binks is the delegate to propose emergency powers be given to Palapatine. This event will eventually lead to the disbanding of the Senate and the Republic.
Also Palapatine is playing both ends against the middle...really he seems to be in control of both sides of the conflict. It is implied that he indirectly ordered the construction of the clones, while at the same time driving the other groups (such as the trade federation) away from the republic. All this to eventually control the enter Empire.
Jake
But see, this is how Jar Jar should have been handled in Episode 1. Subtle actions, a silent presence, but a strong impact.
Jar Jar only got some eight minutes of air time, and all but two of those minutes were great!
Gee, I wonder how Jar-Jar was persuaded to make the motion....
------------------
AnlaShok, Captain of the Gray Hand of Fate Squadron
Sidhe-1
Wielder of the Big Heavy Hammer of Obvious Truth
"FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!"
1) Beam Weapons: Those artillery pieces that brought down one of the Trade Guild ships were awesome
2) The use of Art Deco on Corissant and elsewhere in the movie
3) Senator Amidala's Ship at the beginning of the movie. That has to be one of the coolest (other than the Falcon), sleekest ships seen in any SW movie, of coarse they promptly blew it up.
4) Natalie Portman in a skin-tight uniform (and/or a backless dress).
[EDIT] One more to add...the sound from the siesmic charge...has to be one of the coolest sounds fx I 've heard in a theater. On a side note: those charges wouldn't actually work in space due to the lack of a medium for the waves to travel through.
[This message has been edited by Freejack (edited 05-29-2002).]
[b]The Force has great influence on the weak minded.
Gee, I wonder how Jar-Jar was persuaded to make the motion....
[/b][/quote]
ROFL!!!!
I never thought of that [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
------------------
[b][url="http://www.minbari.co.uk/log12.2263/"]Required reading[/url][/b]
Never eat anything bigger than your own head.
"Nonono...Is not [i]Great[/i] Machine. Is...[i]Not[/i]-so-Great Machine. It make good snow cone though." - Zathras