[quote]Originally posted by JackN:
[b]Then there's that Asteroid scene with Jango and Bobo Fett vs Obi Wan!
I just love the Jedi Fighter and it's long rang support ring! I gotta have one of those! [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/biggrin.gif[/img][/b][/quote]
It'd sure make trips to the corner store fun [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
Yoda > ALL
Man, that little guy rocked!
About the Jango/Boba vs. Obi-Wan, is it only me or did the sound that those bombs produce rock?
I have a few questions for all of u who knows the story:
1) Why is the power of the force decreasing? (The conversation between Windu and Yoda)
2) Why are the Sith stronger? (It just seems so considering Tyranus's powers, Yoda is after all much older/wiser than him and Tyranus still put up a good fight)
3) Why are there no new Jedis (except Luke) in Ep 4-6? U see in this movie a bunch of younglings being trained, but in the later movies there's only Obi-Wan and Yoda.
4) Anywhere u can read the whole story?
By the way, if u haven't figured it out yet, I don't know much about Star Wars [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
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"If you go to Za'Ha'Dum, you will die." - Kosh
[This message has been edited by Vorlon Ambassador Kosh (edited 05-20-2002).]
[quote]Originally posted by Vorlon Ambassador Kosh:
[b]
1) Why is the power of the force decreasing? (The conversation between Windu and Yoda)
2) Why are the Sith stronger? (It just seems so considering Tyranus's powers, Yoda is after all much older/wiser than him and Tyranus still put up a good fight)
3) Why are there no new Jedis (except Luke) in Ep 4-6? U see in this movie a bunch of younglings being trained, but in the later movies there's only Obi-Wan and Yoda.
4) Anywhere u can read the whole story?[/b][/quote]
1) Darth Sidious is somehow supressing the abilities of the Jedi.
2) The Dark Side of the Force is better suited to combat, so that is why the Sith appear to be stronger, especially with the Jedi being weaker.
3) Most of the Jedi have been hunted down by the time Episode 4 starts.
4) I suggest reading some of the books, the ones to start with are the Thrawn Trilogy (Heir to the Empire, Dark Force Rising, The Last Command) by Timothy Zahn.
Worf
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Captain Gideon: I thought you said you dont hold a grudge?
Galen: I dont, I have no surviving enemies...at all
[quote]Originally posted by Vorlon Ambassador Kosh:
[b]Yoda > ALL
Man, that little guy rocked!
About the Jango/Boba vs. Obi-Wan, is it only me or did the sound that those bombs produce rock?
[/b][/quote]
Yes! Very cool!
[quote]Originally posted by Vorlon Ambassador Kosh:
[b]
1) Why is the power of the force decreasing? (The conversation between Windu and Yoda)
2) Why are the Sith stronger? (It just seems so considering Tyranus's powers, Yoda is after all much older/wiser than him and Tyranus still put up a good fight)
3) Why are there no new Jedis (except Luke) in Ep 4-6? U see in this movie a bunch of younglings being trained, but in the later movies there's only Obi-Wan and Yoda.
4) Anywhere u can read the whole story?
[/b][/quote]
There is the suggestion that Anikin is the one who will balance the force. The interpretation of the Jedi and the Sith differ on it. More importantly, they may be both wrong.
The Jedi Council has been in place at least for 1000 years along with the Republic. This may be why we see fear in the council in Episode I, because the idea of balancing the force means that they will lose their upper hand. The Jedi also seem to be a bit arrogant about themselves and their position, and indeed Yoda proclaims some serious flaws in character in recent times of even some of the older Jedi.
The Force has been out of balance for millenia, and it wishes to even itself out.
Anikin is a vergence, and his future is therefor out of the control of the Jedi Council for the most part unless he chooses to submit to their rules and edicts.
The Sith are beginning to grow in numbers and reveal themselves little by little. This suggests there may be a limitation to the quantity and quality of force bearing entities within the universe.
Naturally the Sith would like to see the opposite of the condition that has existed for millenia with the Jedi, and may interpret the balance as their time to rule, which is true to some extent during the empire.
It could be that the force gets balanced because of the mutually assured destruction of both the Sith and the Jedi eliminating each other in numbers.
What no one could possibly know is just how many creatures in the universe have the force ability. When we look at the known universe of Star Wars we see an imbalance when the Jedi are in charge with the council, and we also see it with the emperor and Darth Vader during the times of the empire.
But... What about elsewhere in the universe, places out of touch and at major distance to the republic/empire space? The novels tend to indicate that the force is out of balance in one way or the other depending upon where you are at, and what time you are at it.
---
The Jedi and the Sith make an interesting correlation to the political differences between the republic and the empire in that the Jedi are numerous and work in election from the council, and the Sith work as a dictatorship where the emperor and his Darth minion work to control everything.
It is interesting to me that Anikin and Padme discuss this in the fields of Naboo in Epsiode II to some extent. It's a nice precurser to what's coming.
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Yoda embraces crass comercialism:
Walk with cane, I must, because of arthritis. Before Count Dukoo, I battle, I take Tylenol Arthritis!
Just got back from seeing it myself, my god. Great movie. The love scenes were the low point of the movie, but GL broke them up with Obi-wans adventure. (Although having Natalie in those dresses sure as hell held my attention)
The "You'll be the death of me" quote drew a big laugh from the crowd, along with "Think about my life". ( IF I were a jedi thats what I would do with my time)
People, including me were laughing and cheering at little Yoda. Is it just me or did he change direction in mid-air several times?
Another thing I've noticed is that GL is not as squemish about showing the light saber dis-embowl things. Very refreshing.
The battle at the end was the best I've seen can't wait for the DVD so I can go through that frame-by-frame.
And the most telling reason why I liked it; I was driving home on the highyway at night and though I was in Couracant.
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"Ambassador we all know that the first casulty of war is the truth."
-John Sheridan
Ok so it's not exactly Max's journal but I think it's good
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=40551
All right, well I'll ring in on this one. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
1. Yoda is the eternal ass-kicker. Hands down. ([b][i]never[/b][/i] piss off a little green man [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/wink.gif[/img] ) My hat goes off to the crew that handled the logistics, modelling, match-move, and composition of that sequence. Unbefriggingleivable. Can't wait for the DVD to replay that one frame-by-frame.
2. Someone asked about CTs vs STs. Clone Troopers are the predecessors of StormTroopers. I'm sure we'll learn why Sideous/Palpetine/Emperor replaced them with STs in E3.
3. The story (in and of itself) is masterful. Look at the development here. Palpatine has played both sides by arming them both to GET the power (and military) he needs to seize power from the senate. Very nice. Good conspiracy work.
4. An additional plus was the slaying of the BackStreet Jedi. I'd have paid the $18 to see that scene alone. Too bad that it was so far in the BG, none of us "really" saw it.
Opinions? Epic story. Needs another screenwriter to go over it, though. Dialog was [i]way[/i] too rough. Lucas needs to have a more "visual" oriented script. We don't need dialog to tell us that Anakin and Pademe are falling in love; nor do we need verbage to see the seething, hidden fear/anger behind Anakin's eyes. Smart, poignent lines, and a good actor can bring those out visually.
I'm not sure if it was Christianson's acting, the direction he was under, or both, but the Anakin character just wasn't played well, and it detracted from the otherwise elegant performances by the supporting cast members. I actually think Leo DiCaprio *would* have been better, like I thought Haley Joel Osment would have been a better boy Anakin in E1.
My favorite Anakin scene was where he obliterates the Tusken Camp. He had no lines in that scene. More should have been like that.
I felt that the FX "actors" were overused in some cases--mostly pertaining to human form. In case noone here noticed it, the clonetroopers were 100% CGI. This really detracted from one scene for me. For those of you that saw it, recall the scene where the Master-Seargent CT helps Pademe get up after falling out of the troop transport into a sand dune. CG trooper; CG sand; real Pademe. To me, the CG MasterSeargent seemed "too smooth and fluid." I would have used a practical set and move-matched backdrop, with a real actor in a costume. It's still hard to emulate the human form---mostly because we're all so aware of how it works and all it's nuances, such that even the slightest movement quirk takes away the suspension of disbelief.
The Clonetrooper [b]design[/b] was phenominal. And, I actually REALLY liked the Kaminoans. Especially the eyes...they were beautiful aliens, and, because of that, the fluid character movement actually worked well with them. Fabric was the only part that gave them away as CG. And we all know that aliens are easier to model than humans (right, Jack?) [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/wink.gif[/img]
I'm a bit of an FX buff, so I go overboard on this, but, hey....that's me [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
-R.
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[i]"...Never start a fight...but [b]always[/b] finish it."[/i]
[quote]Originally posted by JackN:
[b]Something else I am enjoying here, which I have been vindicated for since Ep I came out, was the subtle indication in the acting concerning the Jedi. I was noticing the smugness of the Jedi, and was wondering how it would be shown that they had been sitting around getting too fat for too long...
Agreed. I noticed (and enjoyed) that. The cool part is that "the boy will bring balance to the force" doesn't necessarily mean that it takes making thinks BETTER to fix them [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/wink.gif[/img]
-R.
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[i]"...Never start a fight...but [b]always[/b] finish it."[/i]
[quote]Originally posted by JackN:
[b]Then there's that Asteroid scene with Jango and Bobo Fett vs Obi Wan!
I just love the Jedi Fighter and it's long rang support ring! I gotta have one of those! [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/biggrin.gif[/img][/b][/quote]
Ok. Let's go Halfsies [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/wink.gif[/img]
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[i]"...Never start a fight...but [b]always[/b] finish it."[/i]
[quote]Originally posted by Rick:
[b] Agreed. I noticed (and enjoyed) that. The cool part is that "the boy will bring balance to the force" doesn't necessarily mean that it takes making thinks BETTER to fix them [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/wink.gif[/img]
-R.
[/b][/quote]
Exactly. He brang balance by having sex with Padme and bringing Luke and Leia into the world. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
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[url="http://www.3dap.com/hlp"][b]Hard Light Productions[/b][/url] - [i]Our last best hope for Freespace[/i]
"Isn't the universe a wonderful place? I wouldn't want to live anywhere else! Love to stay! Can't! Have to go. Kiss kiss, love love! Bye!" - G'Kar
[quote]Originally posted by Vertigo1:
[b] Exactly. He brang balance by having sex with Padme and bringing Luke and Leia into the world. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img][/b][/quote]
You know, I need some balance in my life, too. Does that mean Natalie Portman will be at my beck and call? [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
Actually, Anakin WILL bring balance to the Force...by increasing the power of the dark side.
[quote]Originally posted by Vertigo_1:
[b]1. What's with Dooku's curved lightsaber? Maul's was one thing, but I see no point in this.[/quote][/b]
Just the handle is curved, which will make it a bit easier to make quick flicks of the wrist for short, quick movements...this I say from 2-3 years of tai chi sabre form practice, complete with a slightly curved handle for a heavy blade.
[quote][b]2. Is Siduous really Palpetine or just a big huge coincidence that they have similar voices? (This would lend truth to Dooku's claim when trying to get Obi-Wan to join him. Just didn't mention that he was [i]working[/i] for that particular dark jedi...)[/quote][/b]
Count Dooku=Darth Tyrannus=Palpatine's new apprentice after Darth Maul died.
[quote][b]3. Why didn't Yoda just force push Anakin and Obi-Wan out of the way of that huge thing instead of trying to lift it?[/quote][/b]
Dramatic effect...a big purpose of movies.
[quote][b]4. Wasn't the order only for 1,000,000 clones? Sorry, but with the Death Star's compliment alone, and those relegated to each Star Destroyer, I [i]don't[/i] think that that's enough.[/quote][/b]
Who ever said there wasn't a second order or continued business done between the Republic/Empire and the cloners?
[quote]Originally posted by JackN:
[b]The Sith are beginning to grow in numbers and reveal themselves little by little.[/b][/quote]
Not according to the official Star Wars web site. According to that site, a Jedi long ago suggested to the Council that the dark side would be the way to go, bringing more power with it. The council disagreed and he split away with some jedi. The Sith eventually were at each other's throats, dark side and all, and it was decided that there would only be two Sith thereafter - master and apprentice...always two...no more, no less. Sidious/Palpatine and Maul as apprentice, Sidious/Palpatine as master and Dooku/Tyrannus as apprentice, then Sidious/Palpatine as master and Anakin/Vader as apprentice.
[quote]Originally posted by Rick:
[b]I'm not sure if it was Christianson's acting, the direction he was under, or both, but the Anakin character just wasn't played well, and it detracted from the otherwise elegant performances by the supporting cast members.[/quote][/b]
IMO, his performance was horrible when it came to expressing anger, and that seemed to bring down Natalie Portman's performance, IMO. It was either that or the directing, but Portman normally does a pretty good job with her roles, before Star Wars.
[quote][b]I'm a bit of an FX buff, so I go overboard on this, but, hey....that's me [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img][/quote][/b]
We'll have to set up a FirstOnes.com JK2 force/saber match some time. I'll still get my butt whooped, of course.
[quote]Originally posted by Rick:
[b] Agreed. I noticed (and enjoyed) that. The cool part is that "the boy will bring balance to the force" doesn't necessarily mean that it takes making thinks BETTER to fix them [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/wink.gif[/img]
[/b][/quote]
Anakin/Vader _does_ balance the force, though. After he (I'm guessing) chases down and slaughters all of the jedi except for Yoda and Obi-Wan, there will be two sith (Palpatine and Vader) and two jedi (Yoda and Obi-Wan). It's just not the balance people might expect, in that it will provide balance by increasing the sith's relative power.
[quote]Originally posted by JohnD:
[b] Sidious/Palpatine and Maul as apprentice, Sidious/Palpatine as master and Dooku/Tyrannus as apprentice, then Sidious/Palpatine as master and Anakin/Vader as apprentice.[/b][/quote]
My only question there, Is what was up woth Doku while Maul was around, we know he was a Jedi, but they give the impression that he left long ago. unless there is a differance between a dark Jedi, and a Sith, then there would have been 3 at the same time, Sideous, Maul and Tyrannus.
And this also means that Palpatine in ROTJ had no plans of keepin Vader alive, since he was trying to turn Luke, and there can be only 2 Sith... Vader would have had to go.
1) hmmm... interesting thought on Palpatine's intentions in ROTJ...
2) Stormtroopers aren't clones, if they were,then...
-All of the command staff would look exactly alike,but they don't, they're fat, they're thin, they have mutton chops, they look like
cliff claven from cheers, ETC.
-There would be absolutely no use for the imperial academy that's mentioned a few times in ep IV
3) The whole thing with the jedi "no Love for you" rule is that if you fall in love, you get, for lack of a better term "posessive". You begin to worry about wether or not you've lost what you have.
and like what yoda said in ep I, fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering.
This is pretty much well illustrated when anakin goes agro on the tusken camp.
Ok, I've seen the movie now. Twice in a row, actually, half-hour intermission for a Pizza and at it again. Had fun. So, it's... good entertainment, nothing ground breaking but definitely better than the Episode 1. Good entertainment, again, repetition is good but the thing I was irritated about was that I expected a full-scale clone war, not exactly the little quarrel they had at the end of the movie.
+
[*] Natalie Portman was as cute as ever.
[*] They didn't kill Jar Jar
[*] Someone finally coated C3-PO
[*] Yoda "the muppet" sure kicks ass in saber fights.
[*] The whole clone army -thingie is a cool basis for the movie.
-
[*] Natalie Portman was [b]AGAIN[/b] given a role where she essentially is forced to sit or stand still in different outfits and blurt out forced lines. Damn good actress and ol' Georgie forces her to do that, WAY TO GO! :grrr:
[*] Secondly, I never imagined Boba & Jango to look like... THAT. Heh. I actually thought the man was some sort of an alien.
[*] I also would have thought that if a master of the Jedi Council makes a clone army, he'd do it from Jedis so that the army would be rather invincible.
[*] Luke's soon-to-be-family-in-progress never said anything even when Anakin robbed them of their droid of which they paid good money for. (C3-PO)
[*] I thought that the Clone War would be demonstrated a bit more efficiently rather than that small quarrel they had at the end of the movie.
and
[*]Perhaps me being an artist distracts me enough from the whole movie to pay attention to the details, but although I like the sight of a good looking woman bleeding from some point of her body as the guy next door does (?), you'd still think that after Natalie got sliced by that porcupine-kitten, she'd bleed a BIT more from those several open wounds... Wonder what her outfit was made of; Pamper's R us?
A good movie, nothing amazing. Well worth the money, I've seen much worse stuff. And I wasn't referring to Ep I, I liked that one too...
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[i]"It does not require an artist to wield the blade that finds itself struck through the heart of an opponent. It takes a true artist to present the sword and allow the man to strike himself against it."[/i]
The thing is that this movies is only the BEGINNING of the clone wars, the skirmish they had was the precursor to a full scale conflict between (I assume) the republic and the trade federation.
[quote]Natalie Portman was AGAIN given a role where she essentially is forced to sit or stand still in different outfits and blurt out forced lines. Damn good actress and ol' Georgie forces her to do that, WAY TO GO! :grrr:[/quote]
The Jedi long range transport ring looks cool, but I'd be worried about flying into a system and dropping off the only way I had to leave and just hoping it would still be there when I left... I guess its not that big a deal since the main ship has an interstellar comm capability, you could just call for a tow, but it would be awfully embarrassing.
I'd imagine that at some point in ep 3 someone / some side will blow up the cloning facility to deny more clones to the Chancellor / Emperor. Also while the clones were grown quickly they still had a 10 year or so lag time, so once the fighting started and you had them as the nucleus of your army it would be faster to recruit your soldiers and train them than it would be to grow more clones.
"I also would have thought that if a master of the Jedi Council makes a clone army, he'd do it from Jedis so that the army would be rather invincible."
You need to watch it a 3rd time. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/wink.gif[/img]
The jedi master you mentioned "ordered" the army 2 years after he died---read: he didn't order it; Palpatine did. Which is why Jango was the template. Dooku erased the planet from the Jedi database before (or as) he was going dark.
Why, then, was Yoda able to take posession? Because the people paid were told that the order was for the jedi Council. Who are they to Question Yoda's stature as senior ? [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/wink.gif[/img]
-R.
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[i]"...Never start a fight...but [b]always[/b] finish it."[/i]
[quote]Originally posted by Entil'Zha:
[b]unless there is a differance between a dark Jedi, and a Sith, then there would have been 3 at the same time, Sideous, Maul and Tyrannus.[QUOTE][B]
The comments I made came directly from the Jedi-Sith history on the official starwars.com web site, so Dooku/Tyrannus probably didn't become a member of the Sith until Maul died. Of course, there's probably a difference between being a member of the organization and practicing the dark side powers or slipping into the dark side of things.
[QUOTE][B]And this also means that Palpatine in ROTJ had no plans of keepin Vader alive, since he was trying to turn Luke, and there can be only 2 Sith... Vader would have had to go.[/b][/quote]
I'd bet Palpatine would have zorched Vader, too...he was growing old and slow, after all.
The Only Two thing brings a whole new demision to TESB and ROTJ and the Emporer and Vader's attempt to turn Luke. They were each planning to off the other, Palpatine so he could get a new apprintice, and Vader so he could be the master. So all that while their trying to get Luke to kill the other one.
It's supported by Vader's line in TESB. "Join me, Luke, and together we can destroy the Emporer and rule the galaxy as father and son."
The only thing agenst it is that Vader defends the Emporer in ROTJ when Luke attacks. My view on this is that Palpatine took temporary control of Vader, just long enough to block Luke's slice. This, I feel, is supported by his evil laugh when Vader and Luke's sabres cross two inchs from his nose.
The following is taken in part from analysis of the canon by such people as Curtis Saxton, as well as from official material (including novels, tech books, and [i]anything and everything[/i] that is applicable, because there is very little published that does not have some level of authority in the SW universe, even the games. Read through [url="http://www.theforce.net/swtc"]http://www.theforce.net/swtc[/url] and similar sites and newsgroups if you have further interest in the subject of analysis.
The Death Stars:
Keep in mind that the station isn't being built at this time, it's being designed. We've seen only simple exterior schematics in E2, as far as I can see. The interior, the power systems, and the superlaser especially are not shown to be designed and probably required time to work on that leaves the station nowhere near ready to begin construction by E3. For those who don't know, the plans later fell into the hands of Wilhuff Tarkin, who gave them to his Maw Installation. There, the designs were finished and a prototype was constructed, which amounted to a frame and superlaser. We know that the designs were taken by Dooku to Palpy, and that no DS was constructed before the one seen in E4, so barring more evidence in E3 it may be that the Geonosians never got anywhere with the project, or that they were unably to begin construction and further plans never got to Palpy. Either way, as far as we know, the first DS only took two years to construct. The second required no more than three years to construct, and may in fact have taken only six months. The 'bankrupted the empire' statement is almost certainly false; I do not know where that idea arises from. At most, it would have strained the resources of a sector. AnlaShok, there is no canon prototype, but the novels are the best source for that kind of reletively obscure data you're going to get. The size of the Death Stars is also reported wrong; although the two figures quoted are often used, the canon overrides them: the first was at least 120 km, possibly as big as 160 km, but the second was amost certainly around 900 km. See SWTC. JackN: If we consider all superlaser platforms to be Death stars, then the DS2 was the fourth: the [i]Tarkin[/i] battlestation, a DS1-scale oddity that was essentially a superlaser and powercore and little else, came between the DS1 and DS2. And afterwords you have the Eclipses, and the Darksabre, and...
A regular Star Destroyer isn't designed for atmosphere, the [i]Acclamator[/i]s you saw were smaller (~800 m) troop transports designed specifically to land.
proto-AT-AT is called an All Terrain Tactical Enforcer, or AT-TE. Sharp indeed. Nice to see they arn't afraid to use projectile weapons when such things are more usefull than blasters.
By E4 the stormies are definately recruits, at least in part. What isn't known is how many of them are still clones, and if the same clone template was used throughout the Clone Wars. Also, I suspect that the switch was a combination of cost and availability. And I think the initial order was 1,200,000.
I absolutely loved that the asteroid field was a planetary ring. Most asteroid fields would be too sparce to be of any interest, but a ring is much better. We may never know why the Hoth asteroid field was so huge and dense. You'd have have a lot of shit blown up recently (in astronomical terms) for that to be there.
Kosh, uhh, The Jedi are all killed. Every last one of them except for Obi and Yoda, and they hid. Anakin does some of the killing himself.
Anyway, JackN again: you noticed the 1000 year quote too! It's supposed to be that the Republic has been around 25,000 years, and that the SW movies are about 40,000 years ahead of us overall (that is, if Earth were Coruscat, which it isn't. A galaxy far away and all that). There are two possible and plausible explanations for this:
1. The Republic briefly fell about 1,000 years ago, but was reestablished. This could be due to any number of things.
2. Palpy meant to say 1,000 generations, which would work for 25,000 years. He misspoke.
Less likely:
3. Palpy slept through history class, galactic history was either lost or poorly distributed, etc.
Failing to suspend disbelief:
4. Lucas fully intends to screw the EU any way he can.
Sith and dark side user need not be one and the same, and aren't in the EU. Jedi and force user need not be the same either, but often are.
edit is minor...and again?!
[This message has been edited by Lord QDaan (edited 05-22-2002).]
[This message has been edited by Lord QDaan (edited 05-26-2002).]
The only thing I can say is that with the books (novels) and the games, there can be more than 2 dark side force users, maybe the destinction is whether a force user is a Jedi or Sith depending on moral orientation and training.
The books suggest force capable entities all over the place.
The games suggest a Jedi can break from being a Jedi, and still use force powers occasionally. "I'm just a guy with a lightsaber".
The games also suggest more than two Dark Jedi can exist.
So much to think about... This is fun! [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/biggrin.gif[/img]
[quote]Originally posted by JackN:
[b]The only thing I can say is that with the books (novels) and the games, there can be more than 2 dark side force users, maybe the destinction is whether a force user is a Jedi or Sith depending on moral orientation and training.
The books suggest force capable entities all over the place.
The games suggest a Jedi can break from being a Jedi, and still use force powers occasionally. "I'm just a guy with a lightsaber".
The games also suggest more than two Dark Jedi can exist.
So much to think about... This is fun! [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/biggrin.gif[/img][/b][/quote]
So i'd thing that a "Dark" Jedi and a Sith Lord are different, there was a great explination of the Sith on starwars.com a while ago., if you haven't read it, then you should.
C3PO originally belonged to Anikin. When he left to become a Jedi, Anikin left C3PO with his mother. So she brought him along to her new family. It is not definate that C3PO belonged to Lars, and that Anikin may still hold claim to him, or maybe even be his inheritance.
Comments
[b]Then there's that Asteroid scene with Jango and Bobo Fett vs Obi Wan!
I just love the Jedi Fighter and it's long rang support ring! I gotta have one of those! [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/biggrin.gif[/img][/b][/quote]
It'd sure make trips to the corner store fun [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
Man, that little guy rocked!
About the Jango/Boba vs. Obi-Wan, is it only me or did the sound that those bombs produce rock?
I have a few questions for all of u who knows the story:
1) Why is the power of the force decreasing? (The conversation between Windu and Yoda)
2) Why are the Sith stronger? (It just seems so considering Tyranus's powers, Yoda is after all much older/wiser than him and Tyranus still put up a good fight)
3) Why are there no new Jedis (except Luke) in Ep 4-6? U see in this movie a bunch of younglings being trained, but in the later movies there's only Obi-Wan and Yoda.
4) Anywhere u can read the whole story?
By the way, if u haven't figured it out yet, I don't know much about Star Wars [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
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"If you go to Za'Ha'Dum, you will die." - Kosh
[This message has been edited by Vorlon Ambassador Kosh (edited 05-20-2002).]
[b]
1) Why is the power of the force decreasing? (The conversation between Windu and Yoda)
2) Why are the Sith stronger? (It just seems so considering Tyranus's powers, Yoda is after all much older/wiser than him and Tyranus still put up a good fight)
3) Why are there no new Jedis (except Luke) in Ep 4-6? U see in this movie a bunch of younglings being trained, but in the later movies there's only Obi-Wan and Yoda.
4) Anywhere u can read the whole story?[/b][/quote]
1) Darth Sidious is somehow supressing the abilities of the Jedi.
2) The Dark Side of the Force is better suited to combat, so that is why the Sith appear to be stronger, especially with the Jedi being weaker.
3) Most of the Jedi have been hunted down by the time Episode 4 starts.
4) I suggest reading some of the books, the ones to start with are the Thrawn Trilogy (Heir to the Empire, Dark Force Rising, The Last Command) by Timothy Zahn.
Worf
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Captain Gideon: I thought you said you dont hold a grudge?
Galen: I dont, I have no surviving enemies...at all
Ave Primo-Populi (Hail the Firstones)
[b]Yoda > ALL
Man, that little guy rocked!
About the Jango/Boba vs. Obi-Wan, is it only me or did the sound that those bombs produce rock?
[/b][/quote]
Yes! Very cool!
[quote]Originally posted by Vorlon Ambassador Kosh:
[b]
1) Why is the power of the force decreasing? (The conversation between Windu and Yoda)
2) Why are the Sith stronger? (It just seems so considering Tyranus's powers, Yoda is after all much older/wiser than him and Tyranus still put up a good fight)
3) Why are there no new Jedis (except Luke) in Ep 4-6? U see in this movie a bunch of younglings being trained, but in the later movies there's only Obi-Wan and Yoda.
4) Anywhere u can read the whole story?
[/b][/quote]
There is the suggestion that Anikin is the one who will balance the force. The interpretation of the Jedi and the Sith differ on it. More importantly, they may be both wrong.
The Jedi Council has been in place at least for 1000 years along with the Republic. This may be why we see fear in the council in Episode I, because the idea of balancing the force means that they will lose their upper hand. The Jedi also seem to be a bit arrogant about themselves and their position, and indeed Yoda proclaims some serious flaws in character in recent times of even some of the older Jedi.
The Force has been out of balance for millenia, and it wishes to even itself out.
Anikin is a vergence, and his future is therefor out of the control of the Jedi Council for the most part unless he chooses to submit to their rules and edicts.
The Sith are beginning to grow in numbers and reveal themselves little by little. This suggests there may be a limitation to the quantity and quality of force bearing entities within the universe.
Naturally the Sith would like to see the opposite of the condition that has existed for millenia with the Jedi, and may interpret the balance as their time to rule, which is true to some extent during the empire.
It could be that the force gets balanced because of the mutually assured destruction of both the Sith and the Jedi eliminating each other in numbers.
What no one could possibly know is just how many creatures in the universe have the force ability. When we look at the known universe of Star Wars we see an imbalance when the Jedi are in charge with the council, and we also see it with the emperor and Darth Vader during the times of the empire.
But... What about elsewhere in the universe, places out of touch and at major distance to the republic/empire space? The novels tend to indicate that the force is out of balance in one way or the other depending upon where you are at, and what time you are at it.
---
The Jedi and the Sith make an interesting correlation to the political differences between the republic and the empire in that the Jedi are numerous and work in election from the council, and the Sith work as a dictatorship where the emperor and his Darth minion work to control everything.
It is interesting to me that Anikin and Padme discuss this in the fields of Naboo in Epsiode II to some extent. It's a nice precurser to what's coming.
ANyway... enough blab... [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/wink.gif[/img]
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Yoda embraces crass comercialism:
Walk with cane, I must, because of arthritis. Before Count Dukoo, I battle, I take Tylenol Arthritis!
The "You'll be the death of me" quote drew a big laugh from the crowd, along with "Think about my life". ( IF I were a jedi thats what I would do with my time)
People, including me were laughing and cheering at little Yoda. Is it just me or did he change direction in mid-air several times?
Another thing I've noticed is that GL is not as squemish about showing the light saber dis-embowl things. Very refreshing.
The battle at the end was the best I've seen can't wait for the DVD so I can go through that frame-by-frame.
And the most telling reason why I liked it; I was driving home on the highyway at night and though I was in Couracant.
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"Ambassador we all know that the first casulty of war is the truth."
-John Sheridan
Ok so it's not exactly Max's journal but I think it's good
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=40551
1. Yoda is the eternal ass-kicker. Hands down. ([b][i]never[/b][/i] piss off a little green man [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/wink.gif[/img] ) My hat goes off to the crew that handled the logistics, modelling, match-move, and composition of that sequence. Unbefriggingleivable. Can't wait for the DVD to replay that one frame-by-frame.
2. Someone asked about CTs vs STs. Clone Troopers are the predecessors of StormTroopers. I'm sure we'll learn why Sideous/Palpetine/Emperor replaced them with STs in E3.
3. The story (in and of itself) is masterful. Look at the development here. Palpatine has played both sides by arming them both to GET the power (and military) he needs to seize power from the senate. Very nice. Good conspiracy work.
4. An additional plus was the slaying of the BackStreet Jedi. I'd have paid the $18 to see that scene alone. Too bad that it was so far in the BG, none of us "really" saw it.
Opinions? Epic story. Needs another screenwriter to go over it, though. Dialog was [i]way[/i] too rough. Lucas needs to have a more "visual" oriented script. We don't need dialog to tell us that Anakin and Pademe are falling in love; nor do we need verbage to see the seething, hidden fear/anger behind Anakin's eyes. Smart, poignent lines, and a good actor can bring those out visually.
I'm not sure if it was Christianson's acting, the direction he was under, or both, but the Anakin character just wasn't played well, and it detracted from the otherwise elegant performances by the supporting cast members. I actually think Leo DiCaprio *would* have been better, like I thought Haley Joel Osment would have been a better boy Anakin in E1.
My favorite Anakin scene was where he obliterates the Tusken Camp. He had no lines in that scene. More should have been like that.
I felt that the FX "actors" were overused in some cases--mostly pertaining to human form. In case noone here noticed it, the clonetroopers were 100% CGI. This really detracted from one scene for me. For those of you that saw it, recall the scene where the Master-Seargent CT helps Pademe get up after falling out of the troop transport into a sand dune. CG trooper; CG sand; real Pademe. To me, the CG MasterSeargent seemed "too smooth and fluid." I would have used a practical set and move-matched backdrop, with a real actor in a costume. It's still hard to emulate the human form---mostly because we're all so aware of how it works and all it's nuances, such that even the slightest movement quirk takes away the suspension of disbelief.
The Clonetrooper [b]design[/b] was phenominal. And, I actually REALLY liked the Kaminoans. Especially the eyes...they were beautiful aliens, and, because of that, the fluid character movement actually worked well with them. Fabric was the only part that gave them away as CG. And we all know that aliens are easier to model than humans (right, Jack?) [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/wink.gif[/img]
I'm a bit of an FX buff, so I go overboard on this, but, hey....that's me [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
-R.
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[i]"...Never start a fight...but [b]always[/b] finish it."[/i]
[b]Something else I am enjoying here, which I have been vindicated for since Ep I came out, was the subtle indication in the acting concerning the Jedi. I was noticing the smugness of the Jedi, and was wondering how it would be shown that they had been sitting around getting too fat for too long...
[img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/wink.gif[/img][/b][/quote]
Agreed. I noticed (and enjoyed) that. The cool part is that "the boy will bring balance to the force" doesn't necessarily mean that it takes making thinks BETTER to fix them [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/wink.gif[/img]
-R.
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[i]"...Never start a fight...but [b]always[/b] finish it."[/i]
[b]Then there's that Asteroid scene with Jango and Bobo Fett vs Obi Wan!
I just love the Jedi Fighter and it's long rang support ring! I gotta have one of those! [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/biggrin.gif[/img][/b][/quote]
Ok. Let's go Halfsies [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/wink.gif[/img]
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[i]"...Never start a fight...but [b]always[/b] finish it."[/i]
[b] Agreed. I noticed (and enjoyed) that. The cool part is that "the boy will bring balance to the force" doesn't necessarily mean that it takes making thinks BETTER to fix them [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/wink.gif[/img]
-R.
[/b][/quote]
Exactly. He brang balance by having sex with Padme and bringing Luke and Leia into the world. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
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[url="http://www.3dap.com/hlp"][b]Hard Light Productions[/b][/url] - [i]Our last best hope for Freespace[/i]
"Isn't the universe a wonderful place? I wouldn't want to live anywhere else! Love to stay! Can't! Have to go. Kiss kiss, love love! Bye!" - G'Kar
[b] Exactly. He brang balance by having sex with Padme and bringing Luke and Leia into the world. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img][/b][/quote]
You know, I need some balance in my life, too. Does that mean Natalie Portman will be at my beck and call? [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
Actually, Anakin WILL bring balance to the Force...by increasing the power of the dark side.
[b]1. What's with Dooku's curved lightsaber? Maul's was one thing, but I see no point in this.[/quote][/b]
Just the handle is curved, which will make it a bit easier to make quick flicks of the wrist for short, quick movements...this I say from 2-3 years of tai chi sabre form practice, complete with a slightly curved handle for a heavy blade.
[quote][b]2. Is Siduous really Palpetine or just a big huge coincidence that they have similar voices? (This would lend truth to Dooku's claim when trying to get Obi-Wan to join him. Just didn't mention that he was [i]working[/i] for that particular dark jedi...)[/quote][/b]
Darth Sidious=Senator Palpatine=1st Trilogy (4-5-6) Emperor Palpatine.
Count Dooku=Darth Tyrannus=Palpatine's new apprentice after Darth Maul died.
[quote][b]3. Why didn't Yoda just force push Anakin and Obi-Wan out of the way of that huge thing instead of trying to lift it?[/quote][/b]
Dramatic effect...a big purpose of movies.
[quote][b]4. Wasn't the order only for 1,000,000 clones? Sorry, but with the Death Star's compliment alone, and those relegated to each Star Destroyer, I [i]don't[/i] think that that's enough.[/quote][/b]
Who ever said there wasn't a second order or continued business done between the Republic/Empire and the cloners?
[b]The Sith are beginning to grow in numbers and reveal themselves little by little.[/b][/quote]
Not according to the official Star Wars web site. According to that site, a Jedi long ago suggested to the Council that the dark side would be the way to go, bringing more power with it. The council disagreed and he split away with some jedi. The Sith eventually were at each other's throats, dark side and all, and it was decided that there would only be two Sith thereafter - master and apprentice...always two...no more, no less. Sidious/Palpatine and Maul as apprentice, Sidious/Palpatine as master and Dooku/Tyrannus as apprentice, then Sidious/Palpatine as master and Anakin/Vader as apprentice.
[b]I'm not sure if it was Christianson's acting, the direction he was under, or both, but the Anakin character just wasn't played well, and it detracted from the otherwise elegant performances by the supporting cast members.[/quote][/b]
IMO, his performance was horrible when it came to expressing anger, and that seemed to bring down Natalie Portman's performance, IMO. It was either that or the directing, but Portman normally does a pretty good job with her roles, before Star Wars.
[quote][b]I'm a bit of an FX buff, so I go overboard on this, but, hey....that's me [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img][/quote][/b]
We'll have to set up a FirstOnes.com JK2 force/saber match some time. I'll still get my butt whooped, of course.
[b] Agreed. I noticed (and enjoyed) that. The cool part is that "the boy will bring balance to the force" doesn't necessarily mean that it takes making thinks BETTER to fix them [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/wink.gif[/img]
[/b][/quote]
Anakin/Vader _does_ balance the force, though. After he (I'm guessing) chases down and slaughters all of the jedi except for Yoda and Obi-Wan, there will be two sith (Palpatine and Vader) and two jedi (Yoda and Obi-Wan). It's just not the balance people might expect, in that it will provide balance by increasing the sith's relative power.
[b] Sidious/Palpatine and Maul as apprentice, Sidious/Palpatine as master and Dooku/Tyrannus as apprentice, then Sidious/Palpatine as master and Anakin/Vader as apprentice.[/b][/quote]
My only question there, Is what was up woth Doku while Maul was around, we know he was a Jedi, but they give the impression that he left long ago. unless there is a differance between a dark Jedi, and a Sith, then there would have been 3 at the same time, Sideous, Maul and Tyrannus.
And this also means that Palpatine in ROTJ had no plans of keepin Vader alive, since he was trying to turn Luke, and there can be only 2 Sith... Vader would have had to go.
2) Stormtroopers aren't clones, if they were,then...
-All of the command staff would look exactly alike,but they don't, they're fat, they're thin, they have mutton chops, they look like
cliff claven from cheers, ETC.
-There would be absolutely no use for the imperial academy that's mentioned a few times in ep IV
3) The whole thing with the jedi "no Love for you" rule is that if you fall in love, you get, for lack of a better term "posessive". You begin to worry about wether or not you've lost what you have.
and like what yoda said in ep I, fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering.
This is pretty much well illustrated when anakin goes agro on the tusken camp.
+
[*] Natalie Portman was as cute as ever.
[*] They didn't kill Jar Jar
[*] Someone finally coated C3-PO
[*] Yoda "the muppet" sure kicks ass in saber fights.
[*] The whole clone army -thingie is a cool basis for the movie.
-
[*] Natalie Portman was [b]AGAIN[/b] given a role where she essentially is forced to sit or stand still in different outfits and blurt out forced lines. Damn good actress and ol' Georgie forces her to do that, WAY TO GO! :grrr:
[*] Secondly, I never imagined Boba & Jango to look like... THAT. Heh. I actually thought the man was some sort of an alien.
[*] I also would have thought that if a master of the Jedi Council makes a clone army, he'd do it from Jedis so that the army would be rather invincible.
[*] Luke's soon-to-be-family-in-progress never said anything even when Anakin robbed them of their droid of which they paid good money for. (C3-PO)
[*] I thought that the Clone War would be demonstrated a bit more efficiently rather than that small quarrel they had at the end of the movie.
and
[*]Perhaps me being an artist distracts me enough from the whole movie to pay attention to the details, but although I like the sight of a good looking woman bleeding from some point of her body as the guy next door does (?), you'd still think that after Natalie got sliced by that porcupine-kitten, she'd bleed a BIT more from those several open wounds... Wonder what her outfit was made of; Pamper's R us?
A good movie, nothing amazing. Well worth the money, I've seen much worse stuff. And I wasn't referring to Ep I, I liked that one too...
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[i]"It does not require an artist to wield the blade that finds itself struck through the heart of an opponent. It takes a true artist to present the sword and allow the man to strike himself against it."[/i]
You must have missed the last HALF of the movie.
I'd imagine that at some point in ep 3 someone / some side will blow up the cloning facility to deny more clones to the Chancellor / Emperor. Also while the clones were grown quickly they still had a 10 year or so lag time, so once the fighting started and you had them as the nucleus of your army it would be faster to recruit your soldiers and train them than it would be to grow more clones.
You need to watch it a 3rd time. [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/wink.gif[/img]
The jedi master you mentioned "ordered" the army 2 years after he died---read: he didn't order it; Palpatine did. Which is why Jango was the template. Dooku erased the planet from the Jedi database before (or as) he was going dark.
Why, then, was Yoda able to take posession? Because the people paid were told that the order was for the jedi Council. Who are they to Question Yoda's stature as senior ? [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/wink.gif[/img]
-R.
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[i]"...Never start a fight...but [b]always[/b] finish it."[/i]
[b]unless there is a differance between a dark Jedi, and a Sith, then there would have been 3 at the same time, Sideous, Maul and Tyrannus.[QUOTE][B]
The comments I made came directly from the Jedi-Sith history on the official starwars.com web site, so Dooku/Tyrannus probably didn't become a member of the Sith until Maul died. Of course, there's probably a difference between being a member of the organization and practicing the dark side powers or slipping into the dark side of things.
[QUOTE][B]And this also means that Palpatine in ROTJ had no plans of keepin Vader alive, since he was trying to turn Luke, and there can be only 2 Sith... Vader would have had to go.[/b][/quote]
I'd bet Palpatine would have zorched Vader, too...he was growing old and slow, after all.
It's supported by Vader's line in TESB. "Join me, Luke, and together we can destroy the Emporer and rule the galaxy as father and son."
The only thing agenst it is that Vader defends the Emporer in ROTJ when Luke attacks. My view on this is that Palpatine took temporary control of Vader, just long enough to block Luke's slice. This, I feel, is supported by his evil laugh when Vader and Luke's sabres cross two inchs from his nose.
The following is taken in part from analysis of the canon by such people as Curtis Saxton, as well as from official material (including novels, tech books, and [i]anything and everything[/i] that is applicable, because there is very little published that does not have some level of authority in the SW universe, even the games. Read through [url="http://www.theforce.net/swtc"]http://www.theforce.net/swtc[/url] and similar sites and newsgroups if you have further interest in the subject of analysis.
The Death Stars:
Keep in mind that the station isn't being built at this time, it's being designed. We've seen only simple exterior schematics in E2, as far as I can see. The interior, the power systems, and the superlaser especially are not shown to be designed and probably required time to work on that leaves the station nowhere near ready to begin construction by E3. For those who don't know, the plans later fell into the hands of Wilhuff Tarkin, who gave them to his Maw Installation. There, the designs were finished and a prototype was constructed, which amounted to a frame and superlaser. We know that the designs were taken by Dooku to Palpy, and that no DS was constructed before the one seen in E4, so barring more evidence in E3 it may be that the Geonosians never got anywhere with the project, or that they were unably to begin construction and further plans never got to Palpy. Either way, as far as we know, the first DS only took two years to construct. The second required no more than three years to construct, and may in fact have taken only six months. The 'bankrupted the empire' statement is almost certainly false; I do not know where that idea arises from. At most, it would have strained the resources of a sector. AnlaShok, there is no canon prototype, but the novels are the best source for that kind of reletively obscure data you're going to get. The size of the Death Stars is also reported wrong; although the two figures quoted are often used, the canon overrides them: the first was at least 120 km, possibly as big as 160 km, but the second was amost certainly around 900 km. See SWTC. JackN: If we consider all superlaser platforms to be Death stars, then the DS2 was the fourth: the [i]Tarkin[/i] battlestation, a DS1-scale oddity that was essentially a superlaser and powercore and little else, came between the DS1 and DS2. And afterwords you have the Eclipses, and the Darksabre, and...
A regular Star Destroyer isn't designed for atmosphere, the [i]Acclamator[/i]s you saw were smaller (~800 m) troop transports designed specifically to land.
proto-AT-AT is called an All Terrain Tactical Enforcer, or AT-TE. Sharp indeed. Nice to see they arn't afraid to use projectile weapons when such things are more usefull than blasters.
By E4 the stormies are definately recruits, at least in part. What isn't known is how many of them are still clones, and if the same clone template was used throughout the Clone Wars. Also, I suspect that the switch was a combination of cost and availability. And I think the initial order was 1,200,000.
I absolutely loved that the asteroid field was a planetary ring. Most asteroid fields would be too sparce to be of any interest, but a ring is much better. We may never know why the Hoth asteroid field was so huge and dense. You'd have have a lot of shit blown up recently (in astronomical terms) for that to be there.
Kosh, uhh, The Jedi are all killed. Every last one of them except for Obi and Yoda, and they hid. Anakin does some of the killing himself.
Anyway, JackN again: you noticed the 1000 year quote too! It's supposed to be that the Republic has been around 25,000 years, and that the SW movies are about 40,000 years ahead of us overall (that is, if Earth were Coruscat, which it isn't. A galaxy far away and all that). There are two possible and plausible explanations for this:
1. The Republic briefly fell about 1,000 years ago, but was reestablished. This could be due to any number of things.
2. Palpy meant to say 1,000 generations, which would work for 25,000 years. He misspoke.
Less likely:
3. Palpy slept through history class, galactic history was either lost or poorly distributed, etc.
Failing to suspend disbelief:
4. Lucas fully intends to screw the EU any way he can.
Sith and dark side user need not be one and the same, and aren't in the EU. Jedi and force user need not be the same either, but often are.
edit is minor...and again?!
[This message has been edited by Lord QDaan (edited 05-22-2002).]
[This message has been edited by Lord QDaan (edited 05-26-2002).]
The books suggest force capable entities all over the place.
The games suggest a Jedi can break from being a Jedi, and still use force powers occasionally. "I'm just a guy with a lightsaber".
The games also suggest more than two Dark Jedi can exist.
So much to think about... This is fun! [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/biggrin.gif[/img]
[b]The only thing I can say is that with the books (novels) and the games, there can be more than 2 dark side force users, maybe the destinction is whether a force user is a Jedi or Sith depending on moral orientation and training.
The books suggest force capable entities all over the place.
The games suggest a Jedi can break from being a Jedi, and still use force powers occasionally. "I'm just a guy with a lightsaber".
The games also suggest more than two Dark Jedi can exist.
So much to think about... This is fun! [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/biggrin.gif[/img][/b][/quote]
So i'd thing that a "Dark" Jedi and a Sith Lord are different, there was a great explination of the Sith on starwars.com a while ago., if you haven't read it, then you should.
[b]The games also suggest more than two Dark Jedi can exist.
[/b][/quote]
Huge difference between a Sith and a Dark Jedi. One implies a corrupted light force user; the other implies a master of the dark side of The Force.
Just my $0.02 [img]http://216.15.145.59/mainforums/smile.gif[/img]
-R.
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[i]"...Never start a fight...but [b]always[/b] finish it."[/i]