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To Infinity and Beyond!

So NASA finally introduced [URL="http://news.yahoo.com/future-nasa-rocket-most-powerful-ever-built-171120699.html"]a "new" rocket[/URL] to the world.

Just from looking at it, I'd say they asked a janitor at the Houston HQ to come up with a design on a dare, in less than a minute. He then took a piece of the Saturn V, added a couple SRBs from the Shuttle and voilà, there's your new rocket.

The only thing that looks new is Orion and you can't even see it because it's the new "LEM" equivalent that sits on top of the rocket, inside the protective shielding.

NASA's just pissed that their budget keeps shrinking...

Comments

  • Random ChaosRandom Chaos Actually Carefully-selected Order in disguise
    I notice that all the rocket propulsion technologies that NASA has been researching over the past 30 years have failed to find a home in the new rocket.
  • StingrayStingray Elite Ranger
    The ion engine for instance probably does not produce enough thrust to lift a rocket of that size.
  • BigglesBiggles <font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
    Ion thrusters would struggle to get 1gm into orbit.

    I'm not quite sure what you were expecting, Stingray. A rocket is a cylindrical thing with engines at the bottom (or, about 80 years ago, at the top). While I agree that shoehorning bits of the space shuttle program in to save jobs is crippling long-term goals for short-term political gain, NASA needs to get stuff into orbit now. There is a proven technology to do that (rockets) so that's what they're building.

    Apart from the specific design that over-reuses shuttle parts, I think NASA is taking the right approach. They need a heavy lift rocket to get the stuff up there they need to do long-distance missions, such as to asteroids.
  • StingrayStingray Elite Ranger
    I was just disappointed, I guess.

    I still think [URL="http://uk.news.yahoo.com/virgin-aims-first-space-launch-within-044339875.html"]private industry[/URL] needs to make space exploration profitable.

    NASA can only do so much and because of all the other economic problems the top deciders are dragging their feet. They just throw a lot of cash at their projects, but that's not what got the aeronautics industry going. I don't see why it shouldn't work like that for space.
  • WORFWORF The Burninator
    When I was at Dragon*Con, I went to Richard Garriott's panel. He was talking a lot about how the future of space flight was with private companies. Of course he owns one, so that might be why ;)
  • I think we should start a private space company.

    Step one is to find someone who enough money to fund our cause.
    Step two is to build an Omega class destroyer in orbit. It can't be that hard, we can leave the lazers out from the design tho'.
  • WORFWORF The Burninator
    I don't think Omega class destroyers are equiped with lasers :)
  • Random ChaosRandom Chaos Actually Carefully-selected Order in disguise
    We could build a Primus and go asteroid collecting with it.
  • FreejackFreejack Jake the Not-so-Wise
    Until you can find another way to get things off world without needing to accelerate to orbital speeds, you really don't have much choice beyond riding a large stick of dynamite...

    Jake
  • What about mass drivers? Like rail guns? I thought that was a serious idea. I'm guessing that to get something into orbit, it would take an insane amount of power though.
  • BigglesBiggles <font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
    It is a serious idea, but unfortunately it, like most other serious ideas besides rockets, is not anywhere near ready for use. Mainly because not enough money is available to properly develop it.
  • StingrayStingray Elite Ranger
    As far as I know, we do have the means to build this:

    [IMG]http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t250/Callamon/Discovery_Lagrange1.jpg[/IMG]

    IMHO there is nothing in this design that does not use technology available now. Well, except maybe a homicidal AI perhaps. ;)

    Built on Earth, assembled in space. It is difficult to get there, especially when we stumble on as basic a challenge as the next EVA space suit, but AFAIK they are busy working on this problem as well. So there are people hard at work. :)
  • ShadowDancerShadowDancer When I say, "Why aye, gadgie," in my heart I say, "Och aye, laddie." London, UK
    As Biggles said, the only thing we're really missing is money, sadly.
  • Entil'ZhaEntil'Zha I see famous people
    Oh come on, without the homicidal AI then wtf is the point???
  • ShadowDancerShadowDancer When I say, "Why aye, gadgie," in my heart I say, "Och aye, laddie." London, UK
    We could put Tyvar on it and have a homicidal human intelligence?
  • FreejackFreejack Jake the Not-so-Wise
    [QUOTE=DarthCaligula;193670]What about mass drivers? Like rail guns? I thought that was a serious idea. I'm guessing that to get something into orbit, it would take an insane amount of power though.[/QUOTE]

    Space elevator is another concept, probably more realistic than a mass driver, but lacking a strong enough material.

    [QUOTE=Biggles;193673]It is a serious idea, but unfortunately it, like most other serious ideas besides rockets, is not anywhere near ready for use. Mainly because not enough money is available to properly develop it.[/QUOTE]

    Also, not enough energy density...

    Jake
  • BigglesBiggles <font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
    I was referring to things such as launch cannons and launch loops. The resources available are nowhere near the resources necessary to develop such ideas.

    [QUOTE=Stingray;193674]As far as I know, we do have the means to build this:[/QUOTE]

    We may, but that has nothing to do with launch vehicles, and thus has no bearing on how we would get the parts up there.
  • Entil'ZhaEntil'Zha I see famous people
    Wasn't NASA looking into the possibility of Space Elevators at one point?
  • ShadowDancerShadowDancer When I say, "Why aye, gadgie," in my heart I say, "Och aye, laddie." London, UK
    Most likely, but if they're stuggling to cover the cost of existing projects then the outlay for a space elevator would be orders of magnitude greater than anyone could afford at the moment
  • StingrayStingray Elite Ranger
    [QUOTE=Biggles;193682]We may, but that has nothing to do with launch vehicles, and thus has no bearing on how we would get the parts up there.[/QUOTE]

    It seems to me that the whole trip to Mars is still meant to start from the ground of our planet to Mars, which of course would require a huge rocket. But if they would use a ship built and waiting in orbit, they would require a lot less fuel or the means to lift said fuel. I am sure they have such plans, because it is an obvious solution. If I understand it correctly, right now they just want astronauts to go around the orbit of Mars, not to land on it. A space-only vehicle seems like the right choice. :)
  • BigglesBiggles <font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
    The current goal is to get to a Near-Earth Object using a ship assembled in orbit. Expect that to change if the US gets a new president next year.

    [QUOTE=Entil'Zha;193685]Wasn't NASA looking into the possibility of Space Elevators at one point?[/QUOTE]

    They still are, but it's one of their (many) "long-term future" projects. I think that the space elevator one is mainly being funded through X-Prize-style competitions. They've held one every year for a few years now.
  • WORFWORF The Burninator
    [QUOTE=Biggles;193691]The current goal is to get to a Near-Earth Object using a ship assembled in orbit. Expect that to change if the US gets a new president next year.[/QUOTE]

    That is the biggest problem I have with government funded space programmes.
  • [QUOTE=Freejack;193678]Space elevator is another concept, probably more realistic than a mass driver, but lacking a strong enough material.
    [/QUOTE]

    Actually there is a strong enough material, according to many scientists:
    Carbon Nanotubes.

    The problem is making a continuous cable of (almost) perfect nanotubes for the many kilometers needed for the space elevator.

    An oldie but goodie divulgation article on carbon nanotubes, which mentions (very briefly) how they have the properties required for a space elevator:
    [url]http://www.americanscientist.org/issues/id.917,y.0,no.,content.true,page.10,css.print/issue.aspx[/url]

    This one came out when I was in grad school... doesn't seem that long ago, but it is. The cover of the magazine had an artists concept of a "buckytube" space elevator (which is why everytime the concept is mentioned I remember this article).
    Arthur C. Clarke's 3001 (final sequel of 2001) briefly mentions nanotubes in the afterword, BTW, and compares that to what he had imagined for Fountains of Paradise, the novel in which he popularized the concept (strangely enough another SF writer, Charles Sheffield published a novel about space elevators the same year, both are good).
    IIRC Kim Stanley Robinson's Mars trilogy actually mentions that the space elevators featured are made of carbon nanotubes.

    The foundation that sponsors the space elevator competition is at the following website:
    [url]www.spaceward.org[/url]

    And, there was a scientific conference about space elevators this year (whenever a research topic becomes important enough a conference about it tends to happen anually). The website of the organization that sponsors the conference is:
    [url]www.isec.org[/url]
    (I believe they also sponsor a prize to encourage development of strong tethers with the ultimate goal of making a space elevator feasible).

    I believe it is technically feasible, but maybe still a few decades from now.

    I hope it happens soon, it would solve many problems with going up to space. As they said in an SF novel (don't remember which): Earth Orbit is half the travel. Given how much energy is required to lift objects to orbit in comparison to the energy required to travel from there to elsewhere in the solar system, a space elevator could allow so much more exploration, as well as assembling ships in orbit without requiring heavy lifting by rockets.
  • ShadowDancerShadowDancer When I say, "Why aye, gadgie," in my heart I say, "Och aye, laddie." London, UK
    I think a serious emerging problem for space elevators is the space junk problem. Once the elevator is tethered, there's no way to move it to avoid any junk, and there's now a LOT of junk up there
  • Entil'ZhaEntil'Zha I see famous people
    IF the cable is strong enough to stand the tensions then a small OMS thruster would be able to move the elevator enough to avoid junk, At least theoretically, no idea about the actual math involed.

    I was actually talking to a friend yesterday who's a bona fide rocket scientist, and he's absolutely against depending on the private sector for manned space flight, The Private sector isn't concerned with pure science, or exploration, or having a way to get us off this little rock, they are concerned with making a buck. Space Flight will become all about the money and not about the science.

    Now, Private Sector space flight with government oversight might work. but I don't think pure privatization is the way to go.
  • StingrayStingray Elite Ranger
    If we as a species are to go to space it is not likely to happen just because of the quest for knowledge. If you look carefully you'll notice that there is no force more powerful than greed. I bet my hat that those black holes they keep referring to are powered by pure greed, forget gravity. :D
  • StingrayStingray Elite Ranger
    I agree to some extent with the feelings expressed by [URL="http://pda.physorg.com/news/2011-09-neil-armstrong-space.html"]the Man himself.[/URL] But the shuttle programm could only do so much. I doubt loosing all remaining shuttles during missions would help the US space program.

    You'd think that establishing a permanent settlement on our moon would be the logical step but apparently it is not.

    It sure looks like China may be the one to soon carry the burden of human exploration of space in the not so distant future. So far though I have not seen much to give me confidence in their abilities. They do have a large pool of volunteers for sure. ;)
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