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Babylon 5 Season 1 Mini Series

croxiscroxis I am the walrus
Based on previous conversations with my brother, boyfriend, and various threads I've considered the possibility of editing season 1 down to a 5-10 hour mini series. How would you go about doing this? What would you cut or keep in, and why?
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Comments

  • [B]Midnight on the Firing Line[/B] (its a slow episode but it shows off Starfuries and kicks off the Narn-Centauri conflict, also establishes who the president is)
    [B]Soul Hunter[/B] (not really needed but does help a bit with the Sinclar-Delenn relationship and the whole "They're using you!" bit)
    [B]Born to the Purple[/B] (MAYBE! it has a ton of witty one liners and Adira, but the storyline is weak and some of the acting meh)
    [B]Parliament of Dreams[/B] (goes without saying)
    [B]Mind War[/B] (very important for starting the Psi Corps storyline)
    [B]And the Sky Full of Stars[/B] (further establishes the Sinclar - Minbari link)
    [B]Believers[/B] (stand alone, but very good)
    [B]Signs and Portents[/B] (goes without saying)
    [B]Voice in the Wilderness[/B] (Great Machine and Hyperions!)
    [B]Babylon Squared[/B] (goes without saying)
    [B]The Quality of Mercy[/B] (Free clinic, alien healing device, plus its a good episode in general!)
    [B]Chrysalis [/B](not important at all, you can leave this one out!)

    Its 12 episodes but at 45 min an ep, that's 9 hours
  • WORFWORF The Burninator
    If you're editing it down into a miniseries, remember you don't need to include the entire episodes, you can cut bits and pieces out.

    Worf
  • croxiscroxis I am the walrus
    Worf, that is my plan. Episodes have an A and B story and, in some case, one or the other may be entirely cut. Take TKO, the A story of the fight can be removed without much protest, but the B story of Ivanova internal conflict over Shiva is excellent. I would argue even important for her character development.
  • croxiscroxis I am the walrus
    Here I am taking a look at the primary A and B stories. I'll create some kind of diagram which put episodes into individual arcs, then a scene by scene analysis.

    [URL="http://tgm.firstones.com/wiki/Midnight_on_the_Firing_Line"]Midnight on the Firing Line
    [/URL] A: Ragesh 3
    B: Raiders
    The whole plot in the episode is important -- edits should be minor
    [URL="http://tgm.firstones.com/wiki/Soul_Hunter"]Soul Hunter[/URL]
    A: Soul Hunter
    This episode is important as it establishes characts and anchored in the arcs. I do think we can cut out Nagrath out of the whole thing.
    [URL="http://tgm.firstones.com/wiki/Born_to_the_Purple"]Born to the Purple[/URL]
    A: Londo's purple files and love
    B: Gold channel and Susan's father dying
    Both are needed. A establishes Londos motivation with Morden down the road. B is needed for Susan's character development
    [URL="http://tgm.firstones.com/wiki/Infection"]Infection[/URL]
    A: Rubber monster suit
    B: ?
    The A arc only establishes that Earthforce is interested in Bioweapons. Except for select scenes this episode may be cut.
    [URL="http://tgm.firstones.com/wiki/The_Parliament_of_Dreams"]The Parliament of Dreams[/URL] (Plot priority is questionable)
    A: Jeff and Cathrin
    B: G'Kar Assassination
    C: Religious Celibration
    B arc establishes NaToth and A establishes relationship with Cathrin and some character development. Lieneer is also introduced. C arc I like just for the closing scene. A and C may be cut, or reduced.
    [URL="http://tgm.firstones.com/wiki/Mind_War"]Mind War[/URL]
    A: Ironheart
    B: Sigma 957
    A establishes PsiCorps and B introduces the Firstones. Both should be kept
    [URL="http://tgm.firstones.com/wiki/The_War_Prayer"]The War Prayer[/URL]
    A: Homeguard - Minbari Point of View
    B: Ivonovas love interest.
    Susans love interest depends on the primary arc. The home guard is a line I have conflict with. It helps set up context for the Clark arc, but does fizzle out when Clark and Nightwatch take over.
    [URL="http://tgm.firstones.com/wiki/And_the_Sky_Full_of_Stars"]And the Sky Full of Stars[/URL]
    A: Sinclair Abduction Interrogation
    B: Ivanova and Garabaldi hunt for Sinclair
    This abduction fits into Sinclairs battle of the line arc and helps form the minbari relationship with humans. The B arc can probably be reduced or removed.
    [URL="http://tgm.firstones.com/wiki/Deathwalker_%28EP%29"]Deathwalker[/URL]
    A: Deathwalker
    I find this episode to be quite enjoyable as is despite its non arc status. I would keep this in.
    [URL="http://tgm.firstones.com/wiki/Believers"]Believers[/URL]
    A: Doctor vs Faith
    Another episodic episode that is of good quality and thought provoking. I say keep in.
    [URL="http://tgm.firstones.com/wiki/Survivors"]Survivors[/URL]
    A: Garabaldi is framed
    B: Prepping for prez visit to B5
    A story develops character for Garibaldi and establishes his struggle with alcohol. Dependent on the B story for context. Both keep in but could be reduced.
    [URL="http://tgm.firstones.com/wiki/By_Any_Means_Necessary"]By Any Means Necessary[/URL]
    A: Docker Guild Strike
    B: Londo and G'Kar antagonize each other for the Eth Tree.
    The A line gives us a perspective of the workers of Babylon 5, those who can't be heros. While nice and enriching to the universe it can probably be cut. The B line help furthers establish the relationship between G'Kar and Londo, but this is also done elsewhere.
    [URL="http://tgm.firstones.com/wiki/Signs_and_Portents"]Signs and Portents[/URL]
    The title of the season as well!
    A: Raider attacks
    B: Lady Laderia/The Eye
    C: Mr Morden
    Elements of the A story could be dropped, but B and C are quite important
    [URL="http://tgm.firstones.com/wiki/TKO"]TKO[/URL]
    A: Walker Smith
    B: Susan's Shiva
    A is cut. Period. B is very important for Susan's development.
    [URL="http://tgm.firstones.com/wiki/Grail"]Grail[/URL]
    A: The Seeker
    B: The Feeder
    C: The curse
    Episodic, but doesn't contribute much to anything other that the Minbaris spiritualism
    [URL="http://tgm.firstones.com/wiki/Eyes"]Eyes[/URL]
    A: Dudes from EA and Psi Corps try to take command of the station
    Another good episode showing the dark side of Earthforce and the relationships with psi corps. However it is episodic.

    [URL="http://tgm.firstones.com/wiki/Legacies"]Legacies[/URL]
    A: The vanish of the war leader
    B: The young latent telapath
    I say A is important enough to be kept while the B line helps form Susan and Winters relationship.

    [URL="http://tgm.firstones.com/wiki/A_Voice_in_the_Wilderness"]A Voice in the Wilderness[/URL], part 1
    [URL="http://tgm.firstones.com/wiki/A_Voice_in_the_Wilderness"]A Voice in the Wilderness[/URL], part 2
    A: The great machine
    Keep! Might be able to treduce down to an hour.

    [URL="http://tgm.firstones.com/wiki/Babylon_Squared"]Babylon Squared[/URL]
    A: B4
    Very important, Zathras says keeep but no, no one listens to Zathras

    [URL="http://tgm.firstones.com/wiki/The_Quality_of_Mercy"]The Quality of Mercy[/URL]
    A; Healing device
    B: Mindwipe
    A must be kept for Marcus. B could be eliminated/reduced although

    [URL="http://tgm.firstones.com/wiki/Chrysalis_%28EP%29"]Chrysalis[/URL]
    A: Quadrent 37
    B: Prez assassination
    C: Chrysalis
    All need to be kept
  • BigglesBiggles <font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
    You need The War Prayer. It kicks off the Homeguard.
  • The Homeguard seems like such a minor point in the grand scheme of things. By season 2 its, like, dead.

    And whatever you do, don't cut out the closing scene of Parliament of Dreams! Its like, so cool. It really makes the episode, to be honest. If the rest of the episode was crap (which is isn't by far) then it'll still save it.
  • ChaosedChaosed Ranger
    Infection: It also establishes that there were interplanetary wars. That part should be kept in.

    Parliament of Dreams: Cathrin should be removed.

    Mind War: The Ironheart part didn't play out. It falls apart latter on. It should be greatly changed or removed.

    Sky Full of Stars important? It was sort of dropped when When Sinclair was dropped. I do like it though.

    Signs and Portents: the Eye, Morden and Kosh.
  • SanfamSanfam I like clocks.
    The Homeguard wasn't dropped so much as directly evolved into the Nightwatch. It also sets up the shot-in-the-back plot and mystery that needs to be resolved. I think anything relating to this storyline could probably be condensed into a subtle C-plot, spread evenly throughout the show until the final quarter, where it begins to pop out.

    I also feel that the motivations of sinclair's departure could be better emphasized by a re-cut of the last five episodes.

    One more element that was left out about plot weighting...a good balance of plot advancement and action is needed. Development needs to take place, but not at the cost of viewer interest, so in a miniseries format (Lets say 6-9 episodes) we would have to work it out in such a way that a greater arc is revealed over the course of the season, but not in a way that undermines the enjoyability of previous episodes.

    And this may be a bit of a stretch, but it would be worth considering re-rendering the VFX shots from season one. While the actual framing need not be meddled with, this does mean that modifications to the content/flow/order could take place and be completely transparent, rather than having to slice and dice the existing material. There wasn't all too much used in the first season and most of it was generally simplistic (by modern standards), but if someone could donate time to such a sub-project, the rewards would be worth it.

    With a little creativity, we might even be able to carry over some of the development from The Gathering to the miniseries. While I'd estimate that 50% of the shots are incompatible purely on a lighting standpoint, There are quite a few story elements that could be introduced in a way that would allow us to smoothly integrate them. My guess is that we could salvage 8-15% of the pilot for this. Perhaps more if we were to consider utilizing flashbacks (five distinct points in S1 allow this, and a style exists that we could utilize to incorporate them)
  • WORFWORF The Burninator
    Interesting idea about the re-rendering. An idea that could help speed that up as well: reuse establishing shots, external views of the station etc from later on in the series.

    And you could also take the Battle of the Line footage from In the Beginning to use in And the Sky Full of Stars.

    Worf
  • SanfamSanfam I like clocks.
    That would only work if footage was re-rendered (which I think is what you were getting at),otherwise the change in both style and scene detail would be too jarring.
  • SanfamSanfam I like clocks.
    One last additional thought....

    Many of the season one plots tie together in subtle ways. This could work to the benefit of an editor, in that you could have A-sub1, and A-sub2, starting out seemingly unrelated but converging. It allows for the perceived complexity of having 4+ stories without actually having it. Higher payoff, as well. the A/B stories could still be highest priority, but C(A-sub2)/D(B-sub2) can come in at a close third.
  • [QUOTE=Chaosed;173163]Infection: It also establishes that there were interplanetary wars. That part should be kept in. [/quote]

    I'm sorry, but why does that need to be bothered with? I would think the viewer would realize that wars do happen, and if they were dumb, I think the Narn-Centauri relation would change their minds.

    [quote]Parliament of Dreams: Cathrin should be removed. [/quote]

    It would be very tricky to remove her, especially since she is the one that first encounters the Sigma 957 walker, and that she appeared quite a bit in Chrysalis. I mean, Sinclar saying "Nothing's the same anymore" is a pretty critical line, and she was right next to him.

    Plus to be honest, while in the grand scheme of things Catherine wasn't all that important, I think her relationship with Sinclair was very well done. In fact, I'm going to have to think along Derek's lines and say that Catherine and Sinclair had a more interesting relationship then Sheridan and Delenn.

    I mean, "How's your aunt?" and things like that is pretty good stuff. Even though it might seem smart to remove a lot of this stuff, it is quality.

    [quote]Mind War: The Ironheart part didn't play out. It falls apart latter on. It should be greatly changed or removed. [/quote]

    Sigh, the Talia mindfuck. Yeah its true that this petered out with her departure. But aside from that, it begins showing the Psi Corps what they're really like (the experimentations, the rumors that they are pulling the strings back home, etc.) which is critical to the rest of the series.

    [quote] Sky Full of Stars important? It was sort of dropped when When Sinclair was dropped. I do like it though. [/quote]

    I actually missed this episode during the original TNT reruns when Season 5 was picked up (and never saw it during the original run, nor most of S1 for that matter), and of course knowing what happens to Sinclair anyway, I didn't feel this is important. But to someone who doesn't know Sinclair's destiny, this is important. Yeah Sinclair disappeared for a long time, but he is still one of the most pivotal characters of the series. This is a slow episode, and a lot can be cut out. It could be pretty easy to chop this episode by 10-20 minutes (and you can remove the gambling subplot with the security officer almost entirely).
  • croxiscroxis I am the walrus
    In short, I agree :)

    In this so called mental exercise ( ;) ) I am attempting to do a quasi triage which I didn't really communicate. Step 1 is to identify particular episode stories which could be flat out cut -- where they are episodic and add little or nothing to the overall series (The A plots of TKO and Infection for example). While this will probably help as far as new recruit attention span, it will probably not be enough to make the season match the expectations of those who watch/like Firefly and BattleStar

    The second step is to identify the arcs present and which A/B/C plots which at some level tie into them. At this point we determine which arcs can be safely cut. For example, if Cathrin's arc is determined to not be significant we would cut her A/B/C stories out as long as those stories are not vital to the arcs we keep or to the overall series.

    Thirdly we examine at a scene by scene basis. This will be the most time consuming. While an arc or A/B/C story might be kept there may be particular scenes which we collectively go "meh" and decide to ax. Example: any scene with Nagrath.

    Also, if there is a scene which is considered important/vital for the season/series but something that would have been cut by the previous steps of the triage, then we must identify the cut scenes which are vital to establish some context for the target and reimpliment them (ie, the Walkers of Sigma 957 so we must somehow establish Cathrin).

    The last step will be fine editing. Everytime Ironheart says "I am... becomming," I have the sudden urge to stab someone.

    There are some limitations. As we only have the final mix and no master audio tracks the background audio may not line up. Franke's modular music makes this more feasable than it would for other series, but it is a limitation which can prohibit desired edits.

    Another element is chronolgy. While the timeline for a lot of events are open to replacement, I fill hesitent to reorder jms events. It is his universe after all and I just want to condence it, not reorder it. One of those unrational gut feeling things.

    To the specific responces:
    Sanfam: Action and development are both very important, I do not argue with that. It is something to be looked at all levels of the triage.

    The homeguard debate: The scenes which mention homeguard in passing may be enough to be a segway into Clark/Nightwatch. However the War Preyer establishes to the views the extreams they go to. In this case it would be something that I recommend to be edited down, but not flat out eleiminated. It also portrays Londo as a more sympathetic character and Vir as someone with morals -- but this can also be established in other story elements.

    The Gathering: I intentionally decided to leave this as its own seperate element due to its different casting and production elements. I can invision it being a series of flashbacks to provide context though, but that is a higher level of editing then my brain can wrap around.

    Efects: I would LOVE to re do season one effects for several reasons. One: they were rendered in 4:3 and while wideframe was in mind, the topes and bottems were cropped and in later episodes I felt something was missing. Finding the 4:3 copies and then adding to the sides will aliveiate that. Also I finally noticed that the same external shots of B5 were reused and different ships were composited over it. More shots that we see in later seasons can be used as well as new renders. There is a particual scene where we first see the star furies in combat with the raiders and the pacing is, how we say it, slow as models. Redoing that scene will spead up the combat pace to what we expect from more modern sci fi. Finally are the live action/cgi composits. I have to check how many ther are in seaosn 1, but those (the core shuttles for example) can use a boost.
  • croxiscroxis I am the walrus
    To augment my brothers comments: We need to differentiate when a idea is introduced and when it is reinforced. Mind War establishes that the Psi Corps is nasty, but so does the episode when G'Kat takes dust. We must make sure that there is nothing inbetween that requires the context establihed by Mindwar.

    We also know that jms can be a bit heavy handed with is forshadow. "Nothing is the same anymore." Well DUH the prez just blew up! It may be that Cathrin really isn't needed, that Walkers of Sigma 957 isn't as important as other elements, so that arc can be cut or minimalized. We also need to look at the multi functions of scenes and stories. Sigma 957 do introdue the idea of firstones, but it also shows G'Kar as a sympathetic character and not all evil.

    And for evaluation, at the end of War Without end part 2 when we see what sinclair becomes my boyfriend simply said, "WTF?" Based on that case study I would argue that any element that involves that arc must be included to make it more previlent in the new viewer's mind.
  • WORFWORF The Burninator
    [QUOTE]That would only work if footage was re-rendered (which I think is what you were getting at),otherwise the change in both style and scene detail would be too jarring.[/QUOTE]

    Well yes you would only do that if you were re-rendering footage but at the same time why make extra work when there's existing material that's good enough?

    Worf
  • To be honest, the Midnight battle sequence is probably the most "realistic" space battle in the whole series, but yeah, it is very slow moving from a visual standpoint.
  • SanfamSanfam I like clocks.
    [QUOTE=WORF;173198]Well yes you would only do that if you were re-rendering footage but at the same time why make extra work when there's existing material that's good enough?

    Worf[/QUOTE]

    "Good enough" may not actually be good enough. Of course, we could always strive for that exact level of quality, which would drastically increase the amount of footage we could sample from to save time later, but re-rendering still allows immense (theoretical) levels of flexibility in re-purposing content for different contextual needs. I think the extra work would be almost trivial compared to that needing to be put into the actual editing stage, and perhaps far less if one considers the need to edit around other dialog and events occuring within the same CGI segment in order to change context.

    [QUOTE=croxis;173188]There are some limitations. As we only have the final mix and no master audio tracks the background audio may not line up. Franke's modular music makes this more feasable than it would for other series, but it is a limitation which can prohibit desired edits.[/QUOTE]

    While I don't remember exactly how the audio mix was handled in the B5 dvd releases, I believe there is a distinct possibility that we can subtract the music from much of the show with an automated process. We're dealing with something that was filmed for Dolby Surround telecast and upmixed to Dolby Digital 5.1 for the DVD releases. the DVD mix has music on the four outer channels, dialog primarily in the center and vfx from all five. The key here is that music is consistently along a range of channels and does not fade unevenly or carry any particular bias towards a channel group. This means that dialog is generally isolated to begin with, and that any segments lacking isolation can be subtracted and lightly processed to improve clarity.
  • ChaosedChaosed Ranger
    Infection establishes interplanetary wars one thousand years ago. Reinforces the Shadow Wars. All the species we see seem to be sort of close in age. This to me seems out side of that age. Lets us hear of the level of teck that died out. What happened to the attackers?
    For that question alone I really like that episode. Regardless of the rubber suite. That and the teck Earth got from it is all thats needed.


    Can you make Cathrin -not- be Sinclair's lover? Old girl friend who takes offered advantage for old friendship? G'Kar's friend that Sinclair doesn't approve of? Her trip were she was rescued by the Narns is important.
  • BigglesBiggles <font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
    Why would you want to [i]change[/i] plot elements?

    Infection is important in that it introduces biological technology as a part of the B5 universe, which is necessary for the Vorlons and Shadows, and shows that not just those two races have it. Not that you need an entire episode to do that, of course.
  • If you think about it, EVERY season 1 episode introduces something or at least has an interesting plot element, even if it doesn't mean anything in the arc.

    That one with the latent telepath for example. She's a terrible actress, but it further shows the dicotomy between Ivanova and the Psi-Corps. Also the A story with Neroon begins the Warrior-Religious caste rift.
  • croxiscroxis I am the walrus
    Tentative list, I'm going to have to rewatch the series to fllush this out more

    Arcs:
    Sinclair battle of the line/Valen
    [URL="http://tgm.firstones.com/wiki/Soul_Hunter"]Soul Hunter[/URL]
    [URL="http://tgm.firstones.com/wiki/And_the_Sky_Full_of_Stars"]And the Sky Full of Stars[/URL]
    [URL="http://tgm.firstones.com/wiki/Eyes"]Eyes[/URL]
    [URL="http://tgm.firstones.com/wiki/Legacies"]Legacies[/URL]

    Psicorps
    [URL="http://tgm.firstones.com/wiki/Mind_War"]Mind War[/URL]

    Homeguard/nightwatch
    [URL="http://tgm.firstones.com/wiki/The_War_Prayer"]The War Prayer[/URL]
    [URL="http://tgm.firstones.com/wiki/Eyes"]Eyes[/URL]
    [URL="http://tgm.firstones.com/wiki/Chrysalis_%28EP%29"]Chrysalis[/URL]

    Shadow War
    [URL="http://tgm.firstones.com/wiki/Signs_and_Portents"]Signs and Portents[/URL]
    [URL="http://tgm.firstones.com/wiki/A_Voice_in_the_Wilderness"]A Voice in the Wilderness[/URL]
    [URL="http://tgm.firstones.com/wiki/Babylon_Squared"]Babylon Squared[/URL]
    [URL="http://tgm.firstones.com/wiki/The_Quality_of_Mercy"]The Quality of Mercy[/URL]
    [URL="http://tgm.firstones.com/wiki/Chrysalis_%28EP%29"]Chrysalis[/URL]

    Narn/Centauri Conflict
    [URL="http://tgm.firstones.com/wiki/Midnight_on_the_Firing_Line"]Midnight on the Firing Line[/URL]

    Crystalis
    [URL="http://tgm.firstones.com/wiki/Chrysalis_%28EP%29"]Chrysalis[/URL]

    Unconnected:
    [URL="http://tgm.firstones.com/wiki/Born_to_the_Purple"]Born to the Purple[/URL]
    [URL="http://tgm.firstones.com/wiki/Infection"]Infection[/URL]
    [URL="http://tgm.firstones.com/wiki/The_Parliament_of_Dreams"]The Parliament of Dreams[/URL] (establishes Na'Toth)
    [URL="http://tgm.firstones.com/wiki/Deathwalker_%28EP%29"]Deathwalker[/URL]
    [URL="http://tgm.firstones.com/wiki/Believers"]Believers[/URL]
    [URL="http://tgm.firstones.com/wiki/Survivors"]Survivors[/URL]
    [URL="http://tgm.firstones.com/wiki/By_Any_Means_Necessary"]By Any Means Necessary[/URL]
    [URL="http://tgm.firstones.com/wiki/TKO"]TKO[/URL]
    [URL="http://tgm.firstones.com/wiki/Grail"]Grail[/URL]
  • Chrysalis is a key one to the Narn-Centauri conflict (Quadrant 37) also Born to the Purple has the Euphrates Treaty which doesn't really mean much but is sure funny (the video game).
  • MessiahMessiah Failed Experiment
    Believers is just a bad episode, it should be cut, and TKO could be cut completely, otherwise, Im pretty much in agreement with Croxis [URL="http://forums.firstones.com/showthread.php?p=173157#post173157"]here.[/URL]
  • I think Believers is one of the best episodes of Season 1, actually. You really don't need it for this arc though, but its fantastic.
  • BigglesBiggles <font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
    Born to the Purple and The Parliament of Dreams are both important to the Londo/G'Kar story. The Parliament of Dreams is also important to a later season episode because the Minbari ceremony is repeated.

    One thing your dividing up of the episodes seems to completely lack is considering which epiosdes important to character development. Remember that B5 is as much about its characters as it is about events. Most of S1 is sporadic, seemingly-unconnected events, but they're all important to developing the characters properly.
  • croxiscroxis I am the walrus
    Character development is something I don't remember as well as the basic plot outlines. Something like Susan's father's death arc isn't very well plot connected to the later seasons, but I think it is very important to the development of her character.
  • SanfamSanfam I like clocks.
    Grail has significance with respect to establishing more of Babylon 5 (the station) as well as its history. Perhaps this should be categorized in its own way, but it cannot be ignored.

    Another idea: can we break the episodes down by character focus and development? If there's a specific set of storylines we can adopt to tell multiple stories in parallel at different levels of priority, we could reduce the number of "episodes" needed and better prioritize specifics threads.
  • ChaosedChaosed Ranger
    What I most looked forward to was the Shadow War. Current and Past. (season one perception)
  • Rogue TraderRogue Trader Somebody stop him...
    Would you consider The Gathering part of season 1?
  • croxiscroxis I am the walrus
    I wouldn't
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