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Any experiences from good 1920x1200 TFTs?
E.T
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in Zocalo v2.0
Samsung 959NF has started showing signs of getting "closer to homestretch" at increasing space so looks like I'll have to get new display later, or more probably, sooner and OLED and SED are still MIA.
New Lenovo ThinkVision L220x has 22" S-PVA panel and wider than sRGB gamut but there aren't much reviews of it yet although those few look promising:
[url]http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9056059&pageNumber=2[/url]
[url]http://forums.lenovo.com/lnv/board/message?board.id=Thinkvision&thread.id=2[/url]
Also basing to few user experiences it has very good black level and input lag is from 15 to 47ms with 29ms average which is not bad at all for VA and shouldn't bother them in games. Also price is rather nice. As minus it appears to be made only for PC with only DVI and D-sub and it lacks 1:1 pixel mapping and aspect scaling so those would have to be forced from graphic card. (that could be set as aspect scaling permanently)
Then there would be 23" Apple Cinema HD Display with IPS-panel which is advertised as best panel type. But as for more thorough reviews there aren't any, it has [url=http://www.itreviews.co.uk/hardware/h1410.htm]idiotic cabling system[/url] and it [url=http://peripherals.about.com/od/displaysmonitors/fr/apple23cinema.htm]doesn't have any adjustments[/url] which both suck (wasn't one button mouse enough?) and input lag is question mark.
From, common for that resolution, 24" size S-PVA equipped BenQ FP241W seems like one of the best options, it has gotten good [url=http://www.trustedreviews.com/displays/review/2006/09/13/BenQ-FP241W-24in-Widescreen-Monitor/p3]reviews[/url] and seems to be used by many. Also it has lot of connecting options from HDMI to component and S-video. As downsides it's input lag is [url=http://www.digitalversus.com/duels.php?ty=6&ma1=48&mo1=141&p1=1562&ma2=36&mo2=233&p2=2157&ph=12]worse[/url]. (select delay from menu)
Also it might be harder to get because manufacturing has ended, probably to make room/lessen comparison displays for "shitty except input lag" TN panels.
Use will cover pretty much everything from general use, image processing (RAW is must for harder condition shooting) and watching movies to gaming.
Older laptop had some crappy TN panel and viewing angles were "from ass" (type feature of TN) and neither did it have any bright and dark shades because those went to one black or white mess. New laptop (Asus G1S) clearly has some VA panel because viewing angles are wide and colour changes/distortions stay slight and colours seem to be much better in general. Also yesterday I visited neighbour who I helped to select parts for PC/assemble (+later select new display) and LG 2000C's IPS panel definitely has good viewing angles and colours.
Now most (maybe all) TN panels use 6 bit colours (64 valueas for blue, green and red subpixels) meaning colour reproduction will stay shitty and at the latest that drops them to garbage dump category.
Actually what's the worst is that TN shits are replacing IPS and VA panels in pretty much all sizes.
Also despite of claims being fastest LCDs best VAs actually have less ghosting than many TNs so could someone nuke those damn marketing departments?
New Lenovo ThinkVision L220x has 22" S-PVA panel and wider than sRGB gamut but there aren't much reviews of it yet although those few look promising:
[url]http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9056059&pageNumber=2[/url]
[url]http://forums.lenovo.com/lnv/board/message?board.id=Thinkvision&thread.id=2[/url]
Also basing to few user experiences it has very good black level and input lag is from 15 to 47ms with 29ms average which is not bad at all for VA and shouldn't bother them in games. Also price is rather nice. As minus it appears to be made only for PC with only DVI and D-sub and it lacks 1:1 pixel mapping and aspect scaling so those would have to be forced from graphic card. (that could be set as aspect scaling permanently)
Then there would be 23" Apple Cinema HD Display with IPS-panel which is advertised as best panel type. But as for more thorough reviews there aren't any, it has [url=http://www.itreviews.co.uk/hardware/h1410.htm]idiotic cabling system[/url] and it [url=http://peripherals.about.com/od/displaysmonitors/fr/apple23cinema.htm]doesn't have any adjustments[/url] which both suck (wasn't one button mouse enough?) and input lag is question mark.
From, common for that resolution, 24" size S-PVA equipped BenQ FP241W seems like one of the best options, it has gotten good [url=http://www.trustedreviews.com/displays/review/2006/09/13/BenQ-FP241W-24in-Widescreen-Monitor/p3]reviews[/url] and seems to be used by many. Also it has lot of connecting options from HDMI to component and S-video. As downsides it's input lag is [url=http://www.digitalversus.com/duels.php?ty=6&ma1=48&mo1=141&p1=1562&ma2=36&mo2=233&p2=2157&ph=12]worse[/url]. (select delay from menu)
Also it might be harder to get because manufacturing has ended, probably to make room/lessen comparison displays for "shitty except input lag" TN panels.
Use will cover pretty much everything from general use, image processing (RAW is must for harder condition shooting) and watching movies to gaming.
Older laptop had some crappy TN panel and viewing angles were "from ass" (type feature of TN) and neither did it have any bright and dark shades because those went to one black or white mess. New laptop (Asus G1S) clearly has some VA panel because viewing angles are wide and colour changes/distortions stay slight and colours seem to be much better in general. Also yesterday I visited neighbour who I helped to select parts for PC/assemble (+later select new display) and LG 2000C's IPS panel definitely has good viewing angles and colours.
Now most (maybe all) TN panels use 6 bit colours (64 valueas for blue, green and red subpixels) meaning colour reproduction will stay shitty and at the latest that drops them to garbage dump category.
Actually what's the worst is that TN shits are replacing IPS and VA panels in pretty much all sizes.
Also despite of claims being fastest LCDs best VAs actually have less ghosting than many TNs so could someone nuke those damn marketing departments?
Comments
What I can recommend is the Samsung [url=http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824001095]206BW[/url] A great LCD monitor at a great price. The 20" monitors right now have 8bits vs the 6 bits in most of the larger monitors, and that makes for a lower quality image. At that price, vs what you are looking at, I would say welcome to the dual monitor revolution! Viva la revolution!!
If you just really want a huge freaking monitor, I just read a review about this freakishly huge thang... [url=http://www.gateway.com/accessories/product/1541272R.php?seg=hm]30" HD monster[/url] from of all companies Gateway??? But it comes with a scaler and multiple inputs, and allows to split screen and put multiple inputs up at once? I guess? Cool. Costs as much as as most 42" HDTV's.
I guess also they had to make room for 24" displays with TN panels. (or panel isn't made anymore)
But there's this thing:
[url]http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/dell_2407wfp-hc.htm[/url]
Samsung 245T definitely has horrible input lag, nearly double that of BenQ and Dell.
As for price level here.
[url]http://hintaseuranta.fi/tuote.aspx/49527[/url]
Now remember that euro is ~1.45USD.
[quote]On top of that Apple is holding a Macworld conference in one day and we might just see newer, better cinema displays from them.[/QUOTE]You mean one with all conquering TN panels like happens everywhere?
And I wouldn't trust them to correct cabling/connectivity and lack of adjustments.
[QUOTE=SpiritOne;169014]The 20" monitors right now have 8bits vs the 6 bits in most of the larger monitors[/QUOTE]You mean six plus two additional bits of dithering and FRC which immediately becomes 8 bits in ads.
ViewSonic seems to be only brand which has decent datasheets available and every TN panel has "6 bit + 2 bit FRC" colours so I wouldn't trust any TN being 8 bit unless I had advertisers head under guillotine's blade.
Also now when camcorder records 1080p full HD capable wide screen would be good for viewing those beside movies.
I guess also they had to make room for 24" displays with TN panels. (or panel isn't made anymore)
But there's this thing:
[url]http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/dell_2407wfp-hc.htm[/url][/quote]
From my research, the ghosting problem is limited to certain (smaller, but still notably large enough) serial number ranges, which makes it a nightmare to predict whether or not you'll suffer from it. It's a risk that I've been worried about.
[quote]Samsung 245T definitely has horrible input lag, nearly double that of BenQ and Dell.
As for price level here.
[url]http://hintaseuranta.fi/tuote.aspx/49527[/url]
Now remember that euro is ~1.45USD.[/quote]
It's a terrible problem and really upsets me as the screen is perfect in almost every other possible metric.
[quote]You mean one with all conquering TN panels like happens everywhere?
And I wouldn't trust them to correct cabling/connectivity and lack of adjustments.[/quote]
I'm not expecting anything more than brightness, as is standard fare, but they *did* switch to the correct cabling with current batch of displays and demand from the industry might have them adding some more detailed controls. Wishful thinking, I know. ;)
But it's terrible that TN panels are so damned popular these days. My quest to find a non-TN 22" widescreen for office use was a nightmare, though I did end up deciding on the TN-based Samsung 226BW (which it turns out is actually a superb display...excluding god awful viewing angles)
I really wish people could see through the hype and stop buying panels with impossible refresh rates, or unviewable contrast ratios, or whatever. It's like the brightness wars from the early days of LCD sales.
God, if it weren't for [B]glaring flaws[/B] in what seems to be every single product, I'd have settled on a screen already ;)
Edit: I forgot to mention, the Lenovo panel you mentioned has been getting rave reviews from most of the professional realm, but my only concern would be whether or not the hardware is robust enough to last. I suspect that it is safe to assume the product will have staying power, but it's a bit too early in its lifecycle.
Edit: I forgot to mention, the Lenovo panel you mentioned has been getting rave reviews from most of the professional realm, but my only concern would be whether or not the hardware is robust enough to last. I suspect that it is safe to assume the product will have staying power, but it's a bit too early in its lifecycle.[/QUOTE]Yep, new laptop (Asus G1S) has that fashionable mirror surface (if there has to be that god damn mirror somewhere they should put it on the other side of panel) and I sometimes wonder should I colour my face black with soot to prevent annoying reflections of face.
At least that Lenovo has one advantage in its non-glossy surface.
Also in laptops Lenovo is considered as robust brand so maybe they've used that money to quality components instead of those extra connectors not needed in PC use.
And the Lenovo has a number of advantages. It just costs a bit. ;) On the upside, it appears the same panel is/was used by a LaCie LCD, so you can be sure it will display images perfectly. If only they made a 24" panel, I'd be in heaven.
As small minus that Lenovo doesn't scale well to 1440x900 or smaller resolutions, but then again I don't think that I would use smaller resolutions in games or have time for "pixel peeping" in most of them.
And actually isn't small "softness of pixels" beneficial in that it allows lowering AA setting of graphic card and using that power for other effects? :D
What shops do you have in mind? MJT Finland sells it for 476€ (plus 15€ delivery cost) and that's makes it over 50€...
How well it scales lower resolutions?
In case of going for more expensive display than Lenovo it would be nice to have also some more connecting options than plain minimum.
(might want to jump to OLEDs/SEDs when they become affordable)
BenQ is supposed to introduce model named V2400W to replace FP241W...
Stinks like "V as value".
[QUOTE=Sanfam;169042]it's the same way you can market a low pixel cycle speed as "Hardware motion blur" :D[/QUOTE]No, no. It's "Hardware accelerated full screen motion blur"...
You know, might be good to get patent/trademark (what ever) for that in case BS departments find it.
[url=http://koti.mbnet.fi/tuunaes/CRTclose.jpg][img]http://koti.mbnet.fi/tuunaes/CRTclose_S.jpg[/img][/url]
Or maybe not quite that close...
(hard to take shot, phosphor dots are damn fast in turning off, increasing brightness seemed to help)
Also you have to take shot with scaling from different resolutions, some resolutions might scale well while some blur more.
(that Lenovo scales 1440x900 decently and 1680x1050 well, under that image blurs considerably)
You're gonna have to wait for a long time to see that happen... just buy the damn Lenovo and see how far you can get with it.
[QUOTE]BenQ is supposed to introduce model named V2400W to replace FP241W...
Stinks like "V as value".[/QUOTE]
Of course it stinks like value because they also have to respond to the price cuts other firms are making. Perhaps this V2400W has an S-IPS panel? G2400W has TN so it wouldn't be prudent to make another one like it.
I was in no way attempting to illustrate the size, shape, blurriness or otherwise of the pixels. I was showing you the available options for handling non-native resolution. If you want all that other stuff, go read a review or something. :)
I guess Dell is out of question, at least without buying from Germany. What I asked Dell delivery time would be fair month (searching back corner of factory's storage space?) and price 800€.
As positive thing Samsung has slowed down speed of "interference" increase before warming up. (might be some place needing just resoldering or some control IC failing, maybe later because of multiple different style symptoms)
Shops haven't got practically any of those in last month and importers don't have any idea when they're going to get them, biggest importer was supposed to get them in 12th day but they didn't get any and only one (of four) importer might be getting small batch in end of month. Guess I have to bother Lenovo and ask are they going to keep all for themselves.
Now I haven't asked Dell when 2408WFP is available, around 20th of Jan they didn't promise that for end of this month but even if it becomes available soon it's probably spoiled by Dell's [url=http://www.digitalversus.com/article-357-2366-88.html]asshole pricing policy[/url].
Biggles, is black level of 2407WFP-HC how good when looked in dark room?
In Germany it would be available for rather decent price (and from stock, unlike Dell Finland's delivery time of month) but it's based to already somewhat aged panel model and coming from CRT I'm surely demanding when it comes good black without messing other colours.
One user coming from CRT who got Lenovo went through three TFTs before that, first two were TN shits without vertical viewing angle and bad colours. Third was one cheap P-MVA equipped Iolair whose black looked as good in brightly lighted room as Lenovo in dark room and brightness/contrast adjustment destroyed shades from either end very fast. (+ brightness has been commented with words "eyes are smoking"/"face burns" because even lowest setting is too bright)
It's not a TN panel, so the color doesn't shift when you look at it from an angle, and doesn't invert when you look at it from beneath.
I have one, and I <3 it.
It's not a TN panel, so the color doesn't shift when you look at it from an angle, and doesn't invert when you look at it from beneath.[/QUOTE]Looks like they've cutted too many corners for adding multimedia features: [i]poor color and brightness performance in very dark areas[/i]
And you're supposed to use D-sub with PC.
[url]http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,2141605,00.asp[/url]
[url]http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2164657,00.asp[/url]
Dell confirmed 2408WFP is now coming available in next weeks...
And looks like this time I called at right moment because offer looks very nice for new model. (about month ago people even got way different prices for 2407WFP-HC depending on who was answering)