Honestly, i'd get a 750, gives you room to grow, Just out of curiosity, any reason you ended up going with the AMD instead of Intel, AMD's dual/quad core processors are still pretty far behind what Intel's doing.
I know money may be tight, but i'd have skimped a little bit elswhere and spent the extra $66 for a Q6600
Biggles<font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
750W? For what? Powering the house off the computer PSU? I'm happily running a Q6600 and an 8800GT with 3 hard drives off a 400W.
money is very very tight at moment if I do it I'm gonna have to cut down on things like eating lol. The only think I can think of is dumbing down the vid card but or a less expensive case. Ehhh what the hell maybe a Q6600 is worth it I'll look into it.
@biggles when you put it that way it makes it sound like its not worth it to get even a 500W
I have to lulz at the 650W 700W PSU recommendations.
I got a Core 2 duo (OC @ 3GHz), 3GB memory, 2 harddisk in RAID0 and geforce 8800gts and it pulls 200W at idle from the socket and 310W at full load. So I agree with Biggles and my recommendation would be a 500W PSU because then you still would have some room to add ther stuff.
Also, I'd like to know what you're about to do with your computer, because at the moment it's only rendering and folding applications that uses all 4 cores. Crysis only uses 2 cores at max at one time. So if you're going to play mostly game get a Core 2 duo and save some money. There probably will be games in th future that takes full advantage of 4 cores but by then I think Core 2 duo and phenom will be so old that it wouldn't run very well anyways on a 4 core cpu from today.
I disagree, PSI-KILLER. I've seen well over a dozen examples of high-end quad core (overclocked) gaming systems with 4-6HDDs, high-end video cards in SLI, and gobs of other intensive goodies that even in a state well above what even the average power user could will them to and you know what? 550-650 watts [B]peak[/B]. That's for a system that is [B]absurdly[/B] high end. Even a pair of dual-core high end cards would only push that slightly higher.
550W is the maximum I could see even an active gamer needing, with a 500 being more in line with their realistic capacity and expansion. For cheapskates, a 380W or 430W is a fine option and still above typical usage levels for a basic computer.
Biggles<font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
[QUOTE=PSI-KILLER;169551]500 watt would not be considered enough for median to high end gamming system. For cheapskate yes do 500 watt.[/url][/QUOTE]
I would call my computer a medium-high end gaming system, and I do not need any more than my 400W PSU is capable of supplying. 500W is not for cheapskates, it's for sensible people who prefer to buy based on facts than based on a "must get higher numbers, even if they don't mean anything!" philosophy.
I also agree with C_Mon about the CPU. If money is so tight, you should be getting a dual-core, not a quad. Very few games benefit from the extra two cores. Put the extra money towards a better video card or something like that.
If budget is too tight, you can save $100 with a P35 mobo, another $37 with cheaper DDR2-800 CL5 RAM and additional $25 with 320GB version of the HDD:
[url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128059[/url]
[url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820313019[/url]
[url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136074[/url]
I was always told you are supposed to have at least a 10% overhead. The beefier power supply the better.. You want to walk a fine line at 500 watts when it might peak over 500 to lets say 525 or 535 you should have at least a 600 watt then. You dont want to run a 500 watt power supply always running peaks at 525 it might say it is ok but you are wearing stuff down quicker inside the PSU. You guys are going to tell me it is OK to spend all this money and possible upgrades on CPU, Tri-sli, raided raptors, PPU card and then get the most economical(a.k.a cheap maybe to strong a word) PSU makes no sense...in my opinion. Of course I agree on efficienty and PFC is also important and all that other stuff. My 650 Silverstone can PEAK at 720, which is fine if it ever gets that high which it wont. But to pinch pennys till they scream over an additional 100 watts that may or may not be used is semantics. My 450 watt PSU that came with the raidmax case that could peak too 525??? in the attic collecting dust!!!! The PSU is only going to supply what is needed, you wont get a higher electric bill if you even put in a 1000 watt psu if it is only suppling 450 watts.
Hmm, I just noticed that the games Johnny is playing are not as power hungry as I presumed... so if the $710 rule still counts, a lowly HD3650 or 8600GT 512MB should be enough.
Biggles<font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
Actually if you have a 1000W PSU and only draw 450W off it, you will get a higher-than-you-should energy bill, as efficiency falls of dramatically below about 80% load in most PSUs.
While someone could buy a 750W PSU so they have the option to upgrade to tri-SLI, raided raptors and all that other stuff you mentioned, realistically that's not likely to happen in this case and it certainly won't happen for most people before those components have got to the point of being power-efficient enough to happily run off a 500W PSU. You could buy a PSU that will let you run a computer that draws as much energy as a small town on the basis that you might get one in the future, or you could buy a more realistically targetted one and buy a new one when you're rich enough to afford such a high-end machine. Look at the parts he's planning and consider if he really needs room on his PSU now for the sort of computer someone with more money than they know what to do with would buy. :)
Biggles, I understand what your saying as the efficiently is off if the power supply is overrated. The derating curve sometimes are not even advertised. Since he is getting Intel you know he will be thinking overclocking since he can and get great speed bump performance. Its good to have the power available if he needs. I don't know of any cutting edge computers that are using 350 - 450 watts max peak. Honestly, I have never heard of a computer having a PSU issue because the power supply is over rated. I have only heard of computers having a PSU problem because the PSU is under rated.
My computer case by itself has 8 case fans then the 2 mobo fans, PSU fans and the graphics fans. It is always advisable to have a comfort zone for additional power.
Fans are by far the least concern when it comes to energy draw. They add a negligible amount of additional load to the PSU. The point is that if your CPU, motherboard, videocard, and HDD are only going to be drawing 310 to 340 watts at their moment of peak draw, why bother getting a high level PSU? Sure, Johnny may be getting a Phenomand an AMD rig which is very high draw, but even that would still only push it into 420W peak territory, safely into his PSU's safe potential range. And if he does really want to upgrade beyond this capacity, he can down the road and end up saving substantial amounts of money on utility bills during that time. If not, then there will be long-term benefits to a lower operating cost.
Now Psi-killer, have you taken the time to run your computer through a kill-a-watt device? If not, I'd suggest you pick one up sometime and give it a shot. You may just be surprised by the numbers you see.
Edit: I think I might be coming off a bit too strong. Please don't take my ramblings as an attack on personal preferences. If you do prefer to configure your system one way, then do it. I'm not particularly affected by your decision either way, but I am hoping to do my part and help form a greener world. :p
The rig that Johnny is getting isn't much different in power consumption than mine and with a 500W PSU I even have 36% room for peaks. Also, if I remember correctly the Wattage on PSUs is the output, not the in-take. So with my about 80% efficiency and my Kill-a-watt says 310W at full load, the real consumption by my computer is 248W at full load. So I still got 50% head room.
Sanfam..
Using this utility at Newegg I am getting 594W. I never used this before as a scale. That is about right for my system. Don't forget I have a 7800GTX card which is using more power then the newer lower wattage video card models. My warrenty expires in April so maybe I will update to the newer junk but who knows.
Okay unfortunately I can't afford to go the intel route I just got my phone bill yikes. But anyway, I put the order through already she should be here by monday.
@Cmon I'm going to use it for gaming and possibly going to use AVID with her though I haven't done much experimentation with vid editing lately we'll see. If and when I find a need to upgrade I'm sure it'll be good for at least a year possibly longer. A friend of mine just gave me a copy of COD4 so thats what I'm going to test her on. Also note I won't be running this baby at any higher res then 1280x860 since I'm still using a CRT. Would you suggest an LCD too? I need to wait another month for that though. I did replace the 80 gig with the 300 gig but thats the only change I made in the order. I am wondering now though should I have bought a new DVD+RW drive because this drive is EIDE I think.
[QUOTE=PSI-KILLER;169594]Sanfam..
Using this utility at Newegg I am getting 594W. I never used this before as a scale. That is about right for my system. Don't forget I have a 7800GTX card which is using more power then the newer lower wattage video card models. My warrenty expires in April so maybe I will update to the newer junk but who knows. [/quote]
a 7800GTX certainly wasn't a lower-power card. Though I can't even imagine what level of power the new HD3950x2 (or whatever the particular model is) will draw. the single-core variants are already among the most intensive cards on the market by an enormous margin, and adding a second core is going to be a nightmare for both power and cooling. Then consider the potential for SLI! Right there is a rig that I could see needing a higher wattage PSU.
Also, I believe the newegg link tends to give a 110W buffer (which isn't a bad plan, considering the habits of its target audience)
[quote]Sanfam & Crew, i am not taking any of this as attacks, just a bunch of people talking computer shop.[/QUOTE]
Just making sure. :D Someimes I tend to come off a bit strong. :p
Also, I'm going to toss up my current plans for the new system.
Antec P182
Antec Earthwatts 500
Gigabyte GA-P35-DS4
[i]Either[/i] an Intel Q6600, or an Intel E8500. The Q6600 would see only mild overclocking.
Memory: 2gb of DDR2 800 (Most of my usage habits aren't memory intensive, but I'll upgrade to 4gb once I settle on a 64bit OS)
HD: WD Raptor, 150gb. (My games, however, are very HD heavy. :p)
Video: 1x 512mb Geforce 8800GT (likely from Gigabyte, maybe Gainward)
OS:Windows XP, Leopard (Hackintosh) dual-boot
Sound (Eventually): Auzentech Prelude
Secondary storage: 1tb Hitachi Deskstar, most likely located on network.
It should be fast enough for my needs and not too much more. I was thinking of going for the the GA-P35-DS3L, but I feel the slight functionality enhancements of the DS4 are worth it. I am also weighing the benefits of moving up to the X38-DS4, but that runs the risk of hackintosh incompatibilities appearing (though this needs more research). Either board appears to be well designed and carries a good reputation.
Psi-Killer: The utility seems quite good at recommending PSUs. It gave 495W for me and I own a 500W PSU. Still, as I know it only uses 310W. And I didn't feel like you were attaking me, so no worries. I'm not attacking you either. I just believe in my recommendation of a 500W PSU. :)
Johnny: If you're going to do video editing and do get a quad core you should really make sure the software you use supports that many cores. In CoD4 you won't see really any difference with a quad core from a dual core. Also, not recommending a new monitor if you're happy with the one you got at the moment.
8-pin? The only 8-pin connector that I know of is the PCI-E power connector and it has nothing to do with HDD. If you mean the 8 pins at the back of HDD, those are [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumper_(computing)]jumper pins[/url]... the 15-pin [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SATA]SATA[/url] power connector looks like this: [url]http://www.cablesdirect.com/sata/images/sata-power.JPG[/url]
Comments
What I've got so far:
[url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827151153[/url]
[url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112099[/url]
[url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130290[/url]
[url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131224[/url]
[url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820134586[/url]
[url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103226[/url]
Now what type of cooling fan should I get?
oh and PSU too, should I get three ribbon PSU or a Two?
I know money may be tight, but i'd have skimped a little bit elswhere and spent the extra $66 for a Q6600
@biggles when you put it that way it makes it sound like its not worth it to get even a 500W
I got a Core 2 duo (OC @ 3GHz), 3GB memory, 2 harddisk in RAID0 and geforce 8800gts and it pulls 200W at idle from the socket and 310W at full load. So I agree with Biggles and my recommendation would be a 500W PSU because then you still would have some room to add ther stuff.
Also, I'd like to know what you're about to do with your computer, because at the moment it's only rendering and folding applications that uses all 4 cores. Crysis only uses 2 cores at max at one time. So if you're going to play mostly game get a Core 2 duo and save some money. There probably will be games in th future that takes full advantage of 4 cores but by then I think Core 2 duo and phenom will be so old that it wouldn't run very well anyways on a 4 core cpu from today.
Look at this guys review. And look at the others he done.
[url]http://www.3dgameman.com/content/view/11645/103/[/url]
550W is the maximum I could see even an active gamer needing, with a 500 being more in line with their realistic capacity and expansion. For cheapskates, a 380W or 430W is a fine option and still above typical usage levels for a basic computer.
Gimmicks sell products faster than facts.
I would call my computer a medium-high end gaming system, and I do not need any more than my 400W PSU is capable of supplying. 500W is not for cheapskates, it's for sensible people who prefer to buy based on facts than based on a "must get higher numbers, even if they don't mean anything!" philosophy.
I also agree with C_Mon about the CPU. If money is so tight, you should be getting a dual-core, not a quad. Very few games benefit from the extra two cores. Put the extra money towards a better video card or something like that.
[url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115037[/url] C2D E8400
[url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835233003[/url] Xigmatek HDT-S1283
[url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128080[/url] Gigabyte GA-X38-DS4
[url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121221[/url] Asus 8800GT 512MB
[url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139003[/url] Corsair VX450
[url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136073[/url] WD5000AAKS
If budget is too tight, you can save $100 with a P35 mobo, another $37 with cheaper DDR2-800 CL5 RAM and additional $25 with 320GB version of the HDD:
[url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128059[/url]
[url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820313019[/url]
[url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136074[/url]
[url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102725[/url]
[url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125083[/url]
And with cheaper RAM, a P35 mobo and without a new HDD, the overall costs are $715 plus shipping.
[url]http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3592048[/url]
While someone could buy a 750W PSU so they have the option to upgrade to tri-SLI, raided raptors and all that other stuff you mentioned, realistically that's not likely to happen in this case and it certainly won't happen for most people before those components have got to the point of being power-efficient enough to happily run off a 500W PSU. You could buy a PSU that will let you run a computer that draws as much energy as a small town on the basis that you might get one in the future, or you could buy a more realistically targetted one and buy a new one when you're rich enough to afford such a high-end machine. Look at the parts he's planning and consider if he really needs room on his PSU now for the sort of computer someone with more money than they know what to do with would buy. :)
My computer case by itself has 8 case fans then the 2 mobo fans, PSU fans and the graphics fans. It is always advisable to have a comfort zone for additional power.
Now Psi-killer, have you taken the time to run your computer through a kill-a-watt device? If not, I'd suggest you pick one up sometime and give it a shot. You may just be surprised by the numbers you see.
Edit: I think I might be coming off a bit too strong. Please don't take my ramblings as an attack on personal preferences. If you do prefer to configure your system one way, then do it. I'm not particularly affected by your decision either way, but I am hoping to do my part and help form a greener world. :p
Using this utility at Newegg I am getting 594W. I never used this before as a scale. That is about right for my system. Don't forget I have a 7800GTX card which is using more power then the newer lower wattage video card models. My warrenty expires in April so maybe I will update to the newer junk but who knows.
[url]http://educations.newegg.com/tool/psucalc/index.html[/url]
Sanfam & Crew, i am not taking any of this as attacks, just a bunch of people talking computer shop.
@Cmon I'm going to use it for gaming and possibly going to use AVID with her though I haven't done much experimentation with vid editing lately we'll see. If and when I find a need to upgrade I'm sure it'll be good for at least a year possibly longer. A friend of mine just gave me a copy of COD4 so thats what I'm going to test her on. Also note I won't be running this baby at any higher res then 1280x860 since I'm still using a CRT. Would you suggest an LCD too? I need to wait another month for that though. I did replace the 80 gig with the 300 gig but thats the only change I made in the order. I am wondering now though should I have bought a new DVD+RW drive because this drive is EIDE I think.
Using this utility at Newegg I am getting 594W. I never used this before as a scale. That is about right for my system. Don't forget I have a 7800GTX card which is using more power then the newer lower wattage video card models. My warrenty expires in April so maybe I will update to the newer junk but who knows. [/quote]
a 7800GTX certainly wasn't a lower-power card. Though I can't even imagine what level of power the new HD3950x2 (or whatever the particular model is) will draw. the single-core variants are already among the most intensive cards on the market by an enormous margin, and adding a second core is going to be a nightmare for both power and cooling. Then consider the potential for SLI! Right there is a rig that I could see needing a higher wattage PSU.
Also, I believe the newegg link tends to give a 110W buffer (which isn't a bad plan, considering the habits of its target audience)
[quote]Sanfam & Crew, i am not taking any of this as attacks, just a bunch of people talking computer shop.[/QUOTE]
Just making sure. :D Someimes I tend to come off a bit strong. :p
Also, I'm going to toss up my current plans for the new system.
Antec P182
Antec Earthwatts 500
Gigabyte GA-P35-DS4
[i]Either[/i] an Intel Q6600, or an Intel E8500. The Q6600 would see only mild overclocking.
Memory: 2gb of DDR2 800 (Most of my usage habits aren't memory intensive, but I'll upgrade to 4gb once I settle on a 64bit OS)
HD: WD Raptor, 150gb. (My games, however, are very HD heavy. :p)
Video: 1x 512mb Geforce 8800GT (likely from Gigabyte, maybe Gainward)
OS:Windows XP, Leopard (Hackintosh) dual-boot
Sound (Eventually): Auzentech Prelude
Secondary storage: 1tb Hitachi Deskstar, most likely located on network.
It should be fast enough for my needs and not too much more. I was thinking of going for the the GA-P35-DS3L, but I feel the slight functionality enhancements of the DS4 are worth it. I am also weighing the benefits of moving up to the X38-DS4, but that runs the risk of hackintosh incompatibilities appearing (though this needs more research). Either board appears to be well designed and carries a good reputation.
Johnny: If you're going to do video editing and do get a quad core you should really make sure the software you use supports that many cores. In CoD4 you won't see really any difference with a quad core from a dual core. Also, not recommending a new monitor if you're happy with the one you got at the moment.