Well yeah that is the draw back. But I was still surprised at the poor quality of the Samsung with the blu-ray setup. After all the hype I was expecting it to look crisp. It didn't. I dunno maybe it was setup wrong. And I looked at the Samsung first as I've been thinking of getting one maybe mid next year. So it wasn't a case of looking at the Kuro and then the Samsung and seeing the difference.
Biggles<font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
If it was cheaper than the TV next to it, it probably was set up wrong. :)
I think the price difference was about £600 so yeah maybe they were edging people towards the more pricey plasma. Well if I had the dough I wouldn't mind the life span issues ;)
Pity that HD-DVD is the better format (advanced features wise)
Blu-Ray will be adding all the advanced features that HD-DVD currnetly has in the soon to be released Blu-Ray 2.0 spec, pity that its a hardware upgrade and not Firmware, which means you'll. have to buy a new Blu-Ray player in order to take advantage of all the features that HD-DVD already has, for 1/2 the cost.
Well, personally, I'm not really worried about any of this since I don't own any HD format hardware at this time. I've waited this long, I can wait a little longer.
Some parts of the industry have waited too and I guess the wait is over now and that is a good thing. It's too bad that HD-DVD lost, but if we are to move ahead to the next best thing, it should be a step that is truly worthwhile.
Large computer manufacturers like Dell and Apple have waited for this decision to fall, now they can start churning out desktops and laptops with blue-ray drives.
The other side of this is though, are these HD formats relevant at all at this point in time? I mean the next step is in reality digital online distribution. I don't see blue-ray to be the end all and be all format.
It's all my fault. I bought a single HD-DVD combo disc and my negative influence caused the entire HD-DVD alliance to fall over and die. I'm sorry to everyone with large stockpiles of HD-DVDs, but you should have waited for me to make my decision before acquiring your own.
This is why... and since Microsoft's Xbox doesn't ship with a HD-DVD player, it's very much in doubt that the format will be supported by anyone else.
Biggles<font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
Yes, everyone celebrate the success of blu-ray. Celebrate the format who's main features are massive lock-in and absolute restriction on what you can do with the content you've bought winning over the format that is aware that the user may want to do things like copy the movie to a home media server.
The product with better techncial specs has won. HD-DVD is the look and Sound of REJECTED. Tosheba is just pushing those HD-DVD players now as great upconverters to get rid of all the stock. Now all the same groups that lost are gathering to push HD downloads, they will loose like they did before though. Why would you pay for somehting that could never be traded, sold or lend to a friend?
I think the BDA should give a discount to trade HD-DVD players to BLU-RAY players but I donlt know if they will do it. The HD-DVD consortium screwed allot of people during the holidays selling for all intense and purposes a Beta-Max player. Universal Studios exclusivity decision did not happen overnight.
RubberEagleWhat's a rubber eagle used for, anyway?
[QUOTE=PSI-KILLER;169069]The product with better techncial specs has won. HD-DVD is the look and Sound of REJECTED. Tosheba is just pushing those HD-DVD players now as great upconverters to get rid of all the stock. Now all the same groups that lost are gathering to push HD downloads, they will loose like they did before though. Why would you pay for somehting that could never be traded, sold or lend to a friend?
I think the BDA should give a discount to trade HD-DVD players to BLU-RAY players but I donlt know if they will do it. The HD-DVD consortium screwed allot of people during the holidays selling for all intense and purposes a Beta-Max player. Universal Studios exclusivity decision did not happen overnight.[/QUOTE]
THE BETTER TECHNICAL SPECS?!?!?!?!?!?
The only thing where the BD-specs are "better", is that it allows for slightly higher video and audio bitrates, and I promise you, if you don't have audio or video equipment that cost you 100.000$, you won't see any difference.
How about the fact that Blu-Ray specs are still being finalized? I mean, I'm more or less okay with whatever outcome (despite my small investment in HD DVD), but at least HD DVD was finalized out of the gate.
Call HD DVD what you will...but ironically it is Blu Ray that is 'beta.'
What amuses me, is the amount of passion on a lot of the tech boards for one format or the other...It's like people defending their religions, trying to convert the 'unbelievers' to their side, telling them to 'wake up,' get their 'facts straight;' name-calling, personal insults...
...actually, it's not all that funny; it's just sad.
RubberEagleWhat's a rubber eagle used for, anyway?
[QUOTE=RedAssAg05;169073]How about the fact that Blu-Ray specs are still being finalized? I mean, I'm more or less okay with whatever outcome (despite my small investment in HD DVD), but at least HD DVD was finalized out of the gate.
Call HD DVD what you will...but ironically it is Blu Ray that is 'beta.'
[/QUOTE]
That's actually one of the reasons i'm anti-blu-ray.
I'm very much a fan of bonus material, but with blu-ray, i'd need to buy 3 players. One now, that's 1.0, then in a few months 1.1 ,and finally, whenever they fell like actually releasing it, 2.0.
But with the player-prices, that's a very unattractive prospect.
(Yes, i do own a ps3, and it possibly will support 2.0, but it's power consumption is beyond good and evil)
I'm also a bit of a believer in the generally better hardware design of the current HD-DVD decks. While I still don't have one, those I have seen appear to run substantially cooler than their BD counterparts. I do wish HD-DVD would stick around just a bit longer, but I suspect there's nothing anybody can do to save the licensing benefits it offered.
[QUOTE=RubberEagle;169074]I'm very much a fan of bonus material, but with blu-ray, i'd need to buy 3 players. One now, that's 1.0, then in a few months 1.1 ,and finally, whenever they fell like actually releasing it, 2.0.[/QUOTE]One reason more for using versatile multifunction device called PC instead of shitload of clumsy, inflexible, random user interface, un-upgradeable devices called as entertainment electronics.
Besides HD DVD is bare technical half step. 15GB per layer is joke for archiving anything.
Backing up/archiving material of 1080p HDV camcorder takes 12GB per tape. Blu-ray can take two of those to one disc which is hell a lot better and more comparable to jump from CDs to DVDs.
(We have enough technical half steps in transition to digital TV in here)
Biggles<font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
[QUOTE=RubberEagle;169071]THE BETTER TECHNICAL SPECS?!?!?!?!?!?
The only thing where the BD-specs are "better", is that it allows for slightly higher video and audio bitrates, and I promise you, if you don't have audio or video equipment that cost you 100.000$, you won't see any difference.[/QUOTE]
The video playing aspects aside, blu-ray is by far a technically better disc. It's just sad they had to lock down the video playing stuff so hard you're lucky you can watch your movies without an armed guard present.
Blu is becomming standard because the disk sales were 1 to 2 in Blu favor for the whole year of 2007. Capacity is the main factor that really sets the 2 formats apart. With the profile 2.0 and such, you will always be able to play a 2.0 movie on any Blu player but you might not have access to all features. But the fetures will be there when you do upgrade. All earlier adopters know the risks that something may become obsolete.
The only thing that anyone will see with a profile 2 player that they don't see with a profile 1.1 or 1 player is ethernet capability(for online content). How many DVD's have that? Are you really missing anything by NBC/Universal not connecting you to their store to buy things while you are watching a movie?
Profile 1.1 requires PIP through 2 seperate video feeds. How is that on your DVD?
Whatever BR player you have will ALWAYS play your movie. Some of the extra BONUS features may not play the same as the 1.1 or 2.0 players, but you will still be able to access bonus content that is on the disc. Whatever was in the PIP stream will also be accesible through the menu as a normal bonus feature(the same as current DVDs).
HD DVD's specs were so finalized that the first generation players were computers running a custom linux install. Both formats were rushed to market.
All current "cheap" HD DVD convert the 1080p to 1080i to the display or convert it back to 1080p to the display. Some higher end HD DVD players actually pass through the 1080p signal. ALL BluRay players send out 1080p without reducing it to 1080i first.
Also, the BluRay player that has sold the most units is firmware upgradeable to 2.0, it just got it's 1.1 upgrade recently. That is the PS3. It is by far the most widely used BluRay player.
All the HD DVD people that are so worried about Profile 1.1 and 2.0 shouldn't worry much. By the time Warner stops shipping HD DVDs, profile 1.1 and 2.0 players will be readily available so they can get online with their movies and buy stuff from the studio store. And have online chats with other people watching the movie at the same time.
By the way, in order to see and hear the extra benefit of the higher bitrates, I can watch on a $3000 projector to a 120" screen through a $600 reciever with $2000 speakers and I defy anyone to NOT see and hear the difference. That is much cheaper than the $100000 equipment some people think you need.
When I bought my PS3, I knew there was a good possibility that HD DVD would win and I would have to get a new player, it seems HD DVD fans weren't aware that HD DVD could possibly lose.
I know people don't like the extra security on BluRay, but who is really going to rip 50Gb movie and buy an expensive burner and disk to steal a $20 movie? Also, how many HD DVD burners are currently available?(0) So the free love on HD DVD is ripped, repaired and burned on a BD-R and watched on a Blu Ray player. (repaired because of the difference in specs, not because it is broken).
Sorry for the rant, but I just needed to speak my mind, you are free to disagree with me, but I am not spreading FUD, if necessary, I will provide links, but that is pretty time consuming.
Dug
[QUOTE]When I bought my PS3, I knew there was a good possibility that HD DVD would win and I would have to get a new player, it seems HD DVD fans weren't aware that HD DVD could possibly lose.[/QUOTE]
That's a rather large assumption; it would be interesting to see the mood of Blu-Ray 'fans' if (theoretically, now) Fox or Disney had switched to HD DVD instead of Warner going Blu-Ray. I think you would find similar attitudes and dissent.
I have a 360 add-on; I have a few HD movies but overall my wife and I have invested less than 300 dollars in HD DVD. I'm not too concerned if HD DVD goes the way of the buffalo and Blu-Ray finally wins the standard; but I still do not approve of Blu-Ray group's decisions that were made to keep up with the HD DVD release (yeah yeah, the corporate way, money is all that matters etc etc; as a consumer though, it doesn't give me a good feeling at all).
And I'm not happy with the industry on the whole that they couldn't get together and establish a standard BEFORE any HD format was released.
No one on either is smelling like a rose in this 'fight,' so far as the consumers (i.e. early adopters in this case) are concerned. No one, on either side.
[Quote]
That's a rather large assumption; it would be interesting to see the mood of Blu-Ray 'fans' if (theoretically, now) Fox or Disney had switched to HD DVD instead of Warner going Blu-Ray. I think you would find similar attitudes and dissent.
I have a 360 add-on; I have a few HD movies but overall my wife and I have invested less than 300 dollars in HD DVD. I'm not too concerned if HD DVD goes the way of the buffalo and Blu-Ray finally wins the standard; but I still do not approve of Blu-Ray group's decisions that were made to keep up with the HD DVD release (yeah yeah, the corporate way, money is all that matters etc etc; as a consumer though, it doesn't give me a good feeling at all).
And I'm not happy with the industry on the whole that they couldn't get together and establish a standard BEFORE any HD format was released.
No one on either is smelling like a rose in this 'fight,' so far as the consumers (i.e. early adopters in this case) are concerned. No one, on either side.
[/Quote]
I should have worded it better. I am talking about the crazy fanboys on some sites saying WB is coming back to HD DVD. Or being PO'd because Warner MAY have been paid. They were all fine when Paramount was paid to switch(and cancel all currently pressed BluRays), but when Warner makes a choice and honors their commitment not just to current announcements, but also future announcements until May, they are pissed and can't believe anyone would choose opposite them.
I do agree that the fanboys on the BR side would be whining about it too, but I would tell them the same thing. I knew BR could lose and I might have to get a new player, that's the price of Early Adoption.
In all honesty, Sony is using its marketing machine to make us think we absolutely need Blu-Ray, when in reality people could live with DVDs for the next decade :P
ShadowDancerWhen I say, "Why aye, gadgie," in my heart I say, "Och aye, laddie."London, UK
I can and will be living with my DVD's for the next decade. I dont need to be able to see an actors every nose hair to actually enjoy a movie, so tbh unless the price comes down to the same level as DVD's are now I can see no good reason to go and get one of these things
Comments
Also, I have an LG multidrive. HD-DVD and Blu-ray in a single drive. :)
Blu-Ray will be adding all the advanced features that HD-DVD currnetly has in the soon to be released Blu-Ray 2.0 spec, pity that its a hardware upgrade and not Firmware, which means you'll. have to buy a new Blu-Ray player in order to take advantage of all the features that HD-DVD already has, for 1/2 the cost.
Some parts of the industry have waited too and I guess the wait is over now and that is a good thing. It's too bad that HD-DVD lost, but if we are to move ahead to the next best thing, it should be a step that is truly worthwhile.
Large computer manufacturers like Dell and Apple have waited for this decision to fall, now they can start churning out desktops and laptops with blue-ray drives.
The other side of this is though, are these HD formats relevant at all at this point in time? I mean the next step is in reality digital online distribution. I don't see blue-ray to be the end all and be all format.
This is why... and since Microsoft's Xbox doesn't ship with a HD-DVD player, it's very much in doubt that the format will be supported by anyone else.
I think the BDA should give a discount to trade HD-DVD players to BLU-RAY players but I donlt know if they will do it. The HD-DVD consortium screwed allot of people during the holidays selling for all intense and purposes a Beta-Max player. Universal Studios exclusivity decision did not happen overnight.
I think the BDA should give a discount to trade HD-DVD players to BLU-RAY players but I donlt know if they will do it. The HD-DVD consortium screwed allot of people during the holidays selling for all intense and purposes a Beta-Max player. Universal Studios exclusivity decision did not happen overnight.[/QUOTE]
THE BETTER TECHNICAL SPECS?!?!?!?!?!?
The only thing where the BD-specs are "better", is that it allows for slightly higher video and audio bitrates, and I promise you, if you don't have audio or video equipment that cost you 100.000$, you won't see any difference.
Call HD DVD what you will...but ironically it is Blu Ray that is 'beta.'
What amuses me, is the amount of passion on a lot of the tech boards for one format or the other...It's like people defending their religions, trying to convert the 'unbelievers' to their side, telling them to 'wake up,' get their 'facts straight;' name-calling, personal insults...
...actually, it's not all that funny; it's just sad.
Call HD DVD what you will...but ironically it is Blu Ray that is 'beta.'
[/QUOTE]
That's actually one of the reasons i'm anti-blu-ray.
I'm very much a fan of bonus material, but with blu-ray, i'd need to buy 3 players. One now, that's 1.0, then in a few months 1.1 ,and finally, whenever they fell like actually releasing it, 2.0.
But with the player-prices, that's a very unattractive prospect.
(Yes, i do own a ps3, and it possibly will support 2.0, but it's power consumption is beyond good and evil)
Besides HD DVD is bare technical half step. 15GB per layer is joke for archiving anything.
Backing up/archiving material of 1080p HDV camcorder takes 12GB per tape. Blu-ray can take two of those to one disc which is hell a lot better and more comparable to jump from CDs to DVDs.
(We have enough technical half steps in transition to digital TV in here)
The only thing where the BD-specs are "better", is that it allows for slightly higher video and audio bitrates, and I promise you, if you don't have audio or video equipment that cost you 100.000$, you won't see any difference.[/QUOTE]
The video playing aspects aside, blu-ray is by far a technically better disc. It's just sad they had to lock down the video playing stuff so hard you're lucky you can watch your movies without an armed guard present.
Profile 1.1 requires PIP through 2 seperate video feeds. How is that on your DVD?
Whatever BR player you have will ALWAYS play your movie. Some of the extra BONUS features may not play the same as the 1.1 or 2.0 players, but you will still be able to access bonus content that is on the disc. Whatever was in the PIP stream will also be accesible through the menu as a normal bonus feature(the same as current DVDs).
HD DVD's specs were so finalized that the first generation players were computers running a custom linux install. Both formats were rushed to market.
All current "cheap" HD DVD convert the 1080p to 1080i to the display or convert it back to 1080p to the display. Some higher end HD DVD players actually pass through the 1080p signal. ALL BluRay players send out 1080p without reducing it to 1080i first.
Also, the BluRay player that has sold the most units is firmware upgradeable to 2.0, it just got it's 1.1 upgrade recently. That is the PS3. It is by far the most widely used BluRay player.
All the HD DVD people that are so worried about Profile 1.1 and 2.0 shouldn't worry much. By the time Warner stops shipping HD DVDs, profile 1.1 and 2.0 players will be readily available so they can get online with their movies and buy stuff from the studio store. And have online chats with other people watching the movie at the same time.
By the way, in order to see and hear the extra benefit of the higher bitrates, I can watch on a $3000 projector to a 120" screen through a $600 reciever with $2000 speakers and I defy anyone to NOT see and hear the difference. That is much cheaper than the $100000 equipment some people think you need.
When I bought my PS3, I knew there was a good possibility that HD DVD would win and I would have to get a new player, it seems HD DVD fans weren't aware that HD DVD could possibly lose.
I know people don't like the extra security on BluRay, but who is really going to rip 50Gb movie and buy an expensive burner and disk to steal a $20 movie? Also, how many HD DVD burners are currently available?(0) So the free love on HD DVD is ripped, repaired and burned on a BD-R and watched on a Blu Ray player. (repaired because of the difference in specs, not because it is broken).
Sorry for the rant, but I just needed to speak my mind, you are free to disagree with me, but I am not spreading FUD, if necessary, I will provide links, but that is pretty time consuming.
Dug
That's a rather large assumption; it would be interesting to see the mood of Blu-Ray 'fans' if (theoretically, now) Fox or Disney had switched to HD DVD instead of Warner going Blu-Ray. I think you would find similar attitudes and dissent.
I have a 360 add-on; I have a few HD movies but overall my wife and I have invested less than 300 dollars in HD DVD. I'm not too concerned if HD DVD goes the way of the buffalo and Blu-Ray finally wins the standard; but I still do not approve of Blu-Ray group's decisions that were made to keep up with the HD DVD release (yeah yeah, the corporate way, money is all that matters etc etc; as a consumer though, it doesn't give me a good feeling at all).
And I'm not happy with the industry on the whole that they couldn't get together and establish a standard BEFORE any HD format was released.
No one on either is smelling like a rose in this 'fight,' so far as the consumers (i.e. early adopters in this case) are concerned. No one, on either side.
That's a rather large assumption; it would be interesting to see the mood of Blu-Ray 'fans' if (theoretically, now) Fox or Disney had switched to HD DVD instead of Warner going Blu-Ray. I think you would find similar attitudes and dissent.
I have a 360 add-on; I have a few HD movies but overall my wife and I have invested less than 300 dollars in HD DVD. I'm not too concerned if HD DVD goes the way of the buffalo and Blu-Ray finally wins the standard; but I still do not approve of Blu-Ray group's decisions that were made to keep up with the HD DVD release (yeah yeah, the corporate way, money is all that matters etc etc; as a consumer though, it doesn't give me a good feeling at all).
And I'm not happy with the industry on the whole that they couldn't get together and establish a standard BEFORE any HD format was released.
No one on either is smelling like a rose in this 'fight,' so far as the consumers (i.e. early adopters in this case) are concerned. No one, on either side.
[/Quote]
I should have worded it better. I am talking about the crazy fanboys on some sites saying WB is coming back to HD DVD. Or being PO'd because Warner MAY have been paid. They were all fine when Paramount was paid to switch(and cancel all currently pressed BluRays), but when Warner makes a choice and honors their commitment not just to current announcements, but also future announcements until May, they are pissed and can't believe anyone would choose opposite them.
I do agree that the fanboys on the BR side would be whining about it too, but I would tell them the same thing. I knew BR could lose and I might have to get a new player, that's the price of Early Adoption.
Dug
Ah, okay...we're on the same page there, then, that's for sure!