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Earth Alliance, Minbari and the Dilgar War

The Lurker's Guide brought up an interesting point regarding Earth's part in the Dilgar War and the Minbari's connections to Deathwalker.

"At the time of the Dilgar War humanity was fresh on the interstellar political scene, having been discovered and given jumpgate/hyperspace technology by the Centauri. The non-aligned worlds seem to be relatively low-tech, and they were being overrun by the Dilgar in a particularly ruthless bid for an empire. Earth's entry into the conflict turned the tide against the Dilgar, leading to the race's confinement to their own system and their ultimate destruction when their sun went nova.

Jha'dur was shielded and hidden by the Minbari Wind Swords, members of their warrior caste, at the close of the Dilgar War 30 years ago. The Minbari didn't encounter humans until about 20 years later, at which time the first contact went bad and initiated the Earth-Minbari war. Up until now it seemed that neither side knew of the other, but how could the Minbari have aided and supported Jha-dur for 20 years without learning of Earth?"

Were the Minbari aware of Earth Alliance during those years between the Dilgar War and the Earth-Minbari War?

Comments

  • BigglesBiggles <font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
    It's hard to say. One would expect so, since they must have had some form of intelligence network. In [i]In The Beginning[/i], when they encounter the humans, one of them does say that they believe the ships to be human ships.

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  • Remember [i]Atonement[/i], where Delenn recalled debating with Dukat & the Grey Council about whether or not they should make contact? Delenn was just an acolyte then, so I'm guessing that scene was years before the war.

    The Minbari were well aware of the Earth Alliance, they just didn't care to have any official contact. That's how I figure it.

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  • BekennBekenn Sinclair's Duck
    The Wind Swords sheltered Deathwalker, but they never told the Grey Council about it. The Grey Council didn't learn about Deathwalker until after the E/M war had begun, when the Wind Swords started bringing in new weapons based off of Deathwalker's designs.

    It's my impression that only a few Minbari knew of the humans before first contact; Dukhat knew of them from the Vorlons (Kosh in particular), and Delenn learned of them from Dukhat. Delenn later found her own sources of information, which is why she was able to identify the Earth ships when they started approaching.

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  • TyvarTyvar Next best thing to a St. Bernard
    That and isnt it stated that the Grey Council had been debating making contact with the Humans for quite some time?

    I never understood why they needed DeathWalker though, If the Humans were decisive against the Dilgar, yet were like so much terry cloth versus the mimbari chainsaw, why the heck would they need Dilgar technology? they should have been so far over anything even a genous Dilgar could produce it wouldnt be funny.
  • Falcon1Falcon1 Elite Ranger
    Technology wise though the Dilgar were now where near the Minbari in terms of the power of their ships... am I right in saying that? If the Earth Alliance could take on the Dilgar then surely their ships were not that advanced... but it does raise the question, if the Dilgar sun hadn't gone nova, would the Earth Alliance have held them back? From what I've read this was the main turning point. It also seems that the Dilgar were already over stretched dealing with the combined League and Narn fleets, and the arrival of the Earth Alliance fleet tipped the balance. It seems to me that since the League were quite low tech compared to Earth and the Dilgar, it would have been easy for any world with the kind of dirty bio tactics that the Dilgar possesed, to simply take what they wanted. Biological warfare would have been a hard thing to defend against. If Earth couldn't prevent the Drakh attack, then none of the League Worlds would have stood a chance against the Dilgar.

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  • BekennBekenn Sinclair's Duck
    The Dilgar had already been chased back to Omelos, their home system, when the star exploded.

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  • The answer is in the past look for the technology of the nazi german they had really incredible weapons and designs
    [url="http://www.achtungpanzer.com/proto.htm"]http://www.achtungpanzer.com/proto.htm[/url]
    [url="http://www.luftarchiv.de/"]http://www.luftarchiv.de/[/url]
    [url="http://www.luft46.com/"]http://www.luft46.com/[/url]
    [url="http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/lostsub/"]http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/lostsub/[/url]

    and this words

    wunderwaffen

    this is a rare book if u can find it u are really

    the black book of fascist horror of 1945

    and the name

    general putt

    and submarine u234

    and rugen island (with 2 points over the u)

    most of the info is in german

    we were lucky...is that is true

    so maybe the dilgars had some incredible weapons but they didnt have the time to deplu them.
  • Rogue TraderRogue Trader Somebody stop him...
    just because you have better tech or more troops does not mean youll win.

    russians couldnt beat the afganis.

    and my guess why they needed deathwalker for the e/m war was mainly because she faced the earth troops before, have seen them in battle and knows how they fight, which would be invaluble in a fight.
  • TyvarTyvar Next best thing to a St. Bernard
    [quote]Originally posted by Rogue Trader:
    [b]just because you have better tech or more troops does not mean youll win.

    russians couldnt beat the afganis.
    [/b][/quote]

    Thats because the Russians had neither really, other then the spentznaz operations against the afghani's most of it was done with equipment wasnt that great and their sensors were primarly whats known in the "buisness" as "eyeball mk 1".

    Anyways If you technological advatage is so great that if you can aquire and shoot your enemies before their sensors can detect you, destroy their fleets completely then gain supperiority to land and support your ground forces, your going to chop up your opponents. Witness the US versus Afghanistan. The alliance forces didnt have to do much the US kept daisy cuttering and JDAMing their opponents lines so that by the time they advanced command and control of their opponents was shattered.

    Thats how you do it. No I think they wanted her specificly for bio warfare purposes come to think of it, because I dont think the warrior caste was allowed to play with such toys.
  • David of MacDavid of Mac Elite Ranger Ca
    Incidentally, if anyone is interested in the idea that the technically superior can lose in spite (or because!) of their fancy gadgets should look up the short story "Superiority" by Arthur C. Clarke. It's a good piece and is pretty interesting. I hear it's even required reading at MIT.
  • TyvarTyvar Next best thing to a St. Bernard
    Proper usage of equipment falls in line of with proper development of equipment.

    It took the old school generals 4 YEARS to figure out massed charges against machineguns were suicidal, and most of them never did, they got sacked and replaced by competent officers who were flexible.

    There are things one can do to offset technological dis advantage, however if your opponent is savy enough each trick you pull will only work once or twice, then it becomes a game, come up with enough tricks so you can bleed them enough for them to give up, or buy enough time to achieve technological parity.. or do they destroy you first.

    Space warfare is alot like modern air warfare or naval. One of the things is that advances in sensor platforms ARE the game, and unless you can pull a stunt Like Sheradin nuclear mine/asteroid belt gambit, your pretty much toast.

    How ever pulling those traps may work on a tactical level, they severly limit you strategicly and thats where the war is really won.

    He who detects their opponent first and gets a good firing resolution walks away. there may be no second chances..

    submarine warfare is like this hours of cat and mouse, a few minutes of action then the engagement is over as one side or another is either dead or slunk out of the area.

    [This message has been edited by Tyvar (edited 12-12-2002).]
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