Windows 2000 is still a corporate workhorse. Many places including my current job still hold on to a large portion of systems running it because it is mostly blost free and highly reliable. Its main drawback at this point is it's becoming abandoned in support. I think 2K is Microsofts most significant operating system ever. It was the first to offer excellent reliability combined with all around application and driver support.
RubberEagleWhat's a rubber eagle used for, anyway?
[QUOTE=Random Chaos;163742]You know, if computer programming was the car industry, you would have product recalls every few seconds.[/QUOTE]
This is about the stupidest statement one can make (in this context). It's not even comparing apples to oranges, it's like comparing apples to monkeys.
let me turn that around to illustrate the sheer stupdidity in this statement: If the car industry was more like the software industry, we'd all have flying-cars hat run on a nearly-unlimited powersource.
To be fair, if we were indeed driving fying cars with nearly unlimited flux capacitor power sources, I'm sure there would be a lot of crashes and fatalaties related to system failures, leading to constant recalls. :P
Random ChaosActually Carefully-selected Order in disguise
I think you miss my point, Rubber Eagle.
Every other industry if you have a defective product, it is recalled.
- Toys that can break into small peices and be swallowed? Recalled.
- Chicken contaminated with salmonella? Recalled.
- Cars that break down? Recalled.
I could go on.
In the computer industry, the following are equivalent:
- Software that doesn't work the way it was supposed to? "You're not using it right."
- Software that has security holes for worms to get in? "Get a firewall and an antivirus."
- Software that crashes your system? "Your system is to blame."
The software industry always tells you that it is your problem. The rest of the industries out there are held to a higher standard: if it is broken, they must fix it or recall it.
True, but to be honest, I have not heard about very many software problmes that could lead to injury or death.
They could recal the disk, ala Console games. Had to send in my Zelda Twilight Princess for a replacement.
RubberEagleWhat's a rubber eagle used for, anyway?
[QUOTE=Random Chaos;163767]I think you miss my point, Rubber Eagle.
Every other industry if you have a defective product, it is recalled.
- Toys that can break into small peices and be swallowed? Recalled.
- Chicken contaminated with salmonella? Recalled.
- Cars that break down? Recalled.
I could go on.
[/quote]
Actually, only products with a major defect are recalled.
If a piece of software is released that will actually harm you physically, i'm sure it will be recalled.
Also, GTA:SA was recalled during the Hot-Coffee fiasco, and replaced with a version without the data on the disc.
And if a new version of an application has a showstopping bug, that version gets recalled too...
[quote]
In the computer industry, the following are equivalent:
- Software that doesn't work the way it was supposed to? "You're not using it right."
- Software that has security holes for worms to get in? "Get a firewall and an antivirus."
- Software that crashes your system? "Your system is to blame."
The software industry always tells you that it is your problem. The rest of the industries out there are held to a higher standard: if it is broken, they must fix it or recall it.[/QUOTE]
The cause of many car crashes is human error.
If your car get's stolen, people will tell you "You shouldn't have parked in that part of town" or "You should have locked it in a Garage".
As someone who has been working for years as Software Developer and has had professional and private contact with lots of other software engineers (even some who were most unprofessional), noone in their right mind will simply tell a customer any of the statements you listed and leave it there.
If the problem is caused by wrong input by the user, every professional will try to a) make the UI more User-friendly, and/or b) create a fix to catch the wrong input before it crashes the program.
As a developer, you only know about a security hole once it has been found, which often means, once it has been exploited. Having a firewall and antivirus software is like having a lock in the door of your house or flat. Implying that having to install either of those is the fault of lazy programmers is like saying that break-ins are the fault of lazy police-officers.
[quote] - Software that crashes your system? "Your system is to blame."[/quote]
Well, i'll admit that that one you could actually hear. That can mess with programs, from overclocked parts, to defect ram, there's uncountable numbers of random problems that have the weirdest cause, from overclocked parts, to defect ram. And then there's often conflict with other software. having tons of progamms running in the tray, incomplete installations...
For now, fortunately, the only person that can control how your computer works, is you. Developers can only give you pointers, where the problems might lie, though in some cases, they might be able to fix the issue with detailed information if it's a reproducable error.
Finally: The "software Industry" is a [i]service[/i] industry, they don't produce a Product to do task X under circumstance Y, the provide solutions that have to do multiple, very complex tasks under very loose conditions.
Biggles<font color=#AAFFAA>The Man Without a Face</font>
[QUOTE=Akrovah;163770]True, but to be honest, I have not heard about very many software problmes that could lead to injury or death.[/QUOTE]
There are numerous examples. The most well-known is the radiotherapy machine software that gave out too large a dose of radiation in certain corner cases, killing the patients.
The rule of thumb anymore is "The software is only as good as the programmer." And these days, programmers just do stuff as fast as they are told without going into the passion for the reason they wanted to do it in the first place, or risk loosing their great paying jobs. Hence... freestuff is typically (not always) less buggier than expensive junk (IE Vista the hellspawn of ME). Money is too much of a concern anymore these days, and as things keep getting more expensive, and people making less. The only thing I can expect is for the PC just to die off because either a)too expensive or b) too unusuable. The reason for the PC just has became jaded. Everyone has their own use for one, but if we can't afford or just can't stand the problems with it, we can't do what we want, only what the people with money want with it. Every company is just in for the money, the quality it posesses is negligible as long as it doesn't reach the 50% unusueable rate. If microcrap stops supporting XP, and doesn't patch the bullshit they put into Vista, I'm going pure Linux or even Mac! So what it will take more time to setup, at least I'll have a computer I can do what I want to do with it!
[QUOTE=Biggles;163781]There are numerous examples. The most well-known is the radiotherapy machine software that gave out too large a dose of radiation in certain corner cases, killing the patients.[/QUOTE]
Oh, I forgot about that. If I remeber right the machines were eventually recalled when they found the glitch weren't they? I probably still have the article somewhere. I had to read it for my software engineering class.
Comments
This is about the stupidest statement one can make (in this context). It's not even comparing apples to oranges, it's like comparing apples to monkeys.
let me turn that around to illustrate the sheer stupdidity in this statement: If the car industry was more like the software industry, we'd all have flying-cars hat run on a nearly-unlimited powersource.
Jake
Every other industry if you have a defective product, it is recalled.
- Toys that can break into small peices and be swallowed? Recalled.
- Chicken contaminated with salmonella? Recalled.
- Cars that break down? Recalled.
I could go on.
In the computer industry, the following are equivalent:
- Software that doesn't work the way it was supposed to? "You're not using it right."
- Software that has security holes for worms to get in? "Get a firewall and an antivirus."
- Software that crashes your system? "Your system is to blame."
The software industry always tells you that it is your problem. The rest of the industries out there are held to a higher standard: if it is broken, they must fix it or recall it.
They could recal the disk, ala Console games. Had to send in my Zelda Twilight Princess for a replacement.
Every other industry if you have a defective product, it is recalled.
- Toys that can break into small peices and be swallowed? Recalled.
- Chicken contaminated with salmonella? Recalled.
- Cars that break down? Recalled.
I could go on.
[/quote]
Actually, only products with a major defect are recalled.
If a piece of software is released that will actually harm you physically, i'm sure it will be recalled.
Also, GTA:SA was recalled during the Hot-Coffee fiasco, and replaced with a version without the data on the disc.
And if a new version of an application has a showstopping bug, that version gets recalled too...
[quote]
In the computer industry, the following are equivalent:
- Software that doesn't work the way it was supposed to? "You're not using it right."
- Software that has security holes for worms to get in? "Get a firewall and an antivirus."
- Software that crashes your system? "Your system is to blame."
The software industry always tells you that it is your problem. The rest of the industries out there are held to a higher standard: if it is broken, they must fix it or recall it.[/QUOTE]
The cause of many car crashes is human error.
If your car get's stolen, people will tell you "You shouldn't have parked in that part of town" or "You should have locked it in a Garage".
As someone who has been working for years as Software Developer and has had professional and private contact with lots of other software engineers (even some who were most unprofessional), noone in their right mind will simply tell a customer any of the statements you listed and leave it there.
If the problem is caused by wrong input by the user, every professional will try to a) make the UI more User-friendly, and/or b) create a fix to catch the wrong input before it crashes the program.
As a developer, you only know about a security hole once it has been found, which often means, once it has been exploited. Having a firewall and antivirus software is like having a lock in the door of your house or flat. Implying that having to install either of those is the fault of lazy programmers is like saying that break-ins are the fault of lazy police-officers.
[quote] - Software that crashes your system? "Your system is to blame."[/quote]
Well, i'll admit that that one you could actually hear. That can mess with programs, from overclocked parts, to defect ram, there's uncountable numbers of random problems that have the weirdest cause, from overclocked parts, to defect ram. And then there's often conflict with other software. having tons of progamms running in the tray, incomplete installations...
For now, fortunately, the only person that can control how your computer works, is you. Developers can only give you pointers, where the problems might lie, though in some cases, they might be able to fix the issue with detailed information if it's a reproducable error.
Finally: The "software Industry" is a [i]service[/i] industry, they don't produce a Product to do task X under circumstance Y, the provide solutions that have to do multiple, very complex tasks under very loose conditions.
There are numerous examples. The most well-known is the radiotherapy machine software that gave out too large a dose of radiation in certain corner cases, killing the patients.
Jake
Oh, I forgot about that. If I remeber right the machines were eventually recalled when they found the glitch weren't they? I probably still have the article somewhere. I had to read it for my software engineering class.